Ecumenist (con-)celebration of MP in Italy

[ania]

Did Apostolic Canons (i.e. Canons of Holy Apostles n° 10 , 11, 45 ,65 ) forbid not only liturgical (con-)celebration but also common prayers with heretics ?
Reader Luca - Italy

Luca, mi amigo, then I am a heretic by default. I went to a Catholic school for 8 years, as the education there was better than most public American schools. Every morning before class, then before every meal, and then 5 minutes before the dismissal bell, we would say a prayer. Usually, it was "Our Father" in the morning, "Hail Mary" at lunch, and then 5 minutes of silence in the afternoon to pray and reflect. I never felt that it was a sin to pray right along with my RC classmates, though I never participated in the church services in any way. My father was then a deacon and now a priest. I grew up near a monastary where no one ever commented on him sending his children to a Catholic school. In fact, other families were encouraged by the monks there to send their children there (only Catholic school in 30 miles), so that they could be spared the vulgarities and complete Godlessness of public schools. I've also attended memorials and funerals for non-Orthodox friends/family members. I've never felt an ounce of guilt while sitting in the pew or standing by the graveside and bowing my head in prayer along with everyone else. I especially remember September 11th, I think it's safe to say that every Orthodox in America prayed whereever they have been, right along with their non-Orthodox neighbor.
As for letting non-Orthodox clergy into the Alter, it's been done. There might be rules against it (I don't have time to search through cannons). However, Greg, the statement "Only holy things are allowed inside the altar..." obviously you have never met some of the altar boys from the OCA... or ROCOR... or the MP... or any other jurisdiction.... perhaps a better way to put it is Holy things are the only things that SHOULD be alowed in the alter. However, the only truely Holy one amoung us is Christ Himself. By that reasoning, no one should be allowed in the altar but Him.

[bogoliubtsy]

However, Greg, the statement "Only holy things are allowed inside the altar..." obviously you have never met some of the altar boys from the OCA... or ROCOR... or the MP... or any other jurisdiction.... perhaps a better way to put it is Holy things are the only things that SHOULD be alowed in the alter. However, the only truely Holy one amoung us is Christ Himself. By that reasoning, no one should be allowed in the altar but Him.

They let me in the altar. Enough said.

[Gregory]

However, Greg, the statement "Only holy things are allowed inside the altar..." obviously you have never met some of the altar boys from the OCA...

My point, Ania, is that only chrismated Orthodox Christians should enter the altar. Of course, there have been times when this is not so.

Greg

[Justin Kissel]

The Anglican situation is often brought up, but there is another side to it that doesn't seem to get mentioned often. Consider the way that Bp. Raphael (who the OCA consider a saint) reacted after he had made "a thorough study of the Anglican Church's faith and orders, as well as of her discipline and ritual." The response of Bp. Raphael was, in part:

After serious consideration I realized that it was my honest duty, as a member of the College of the Holy Orthodox Greek Apostolic Church, and head of the Syrian Mission in North America, to resign from the vice-presidency of and membership in the Anglican and Eastern Orthodox Churches Union. At the same time, I set forth, in my letter of resignation, my reason for so doing.

I am convinced that the doctrinal teaching and practices, as well as the discipline, of the whole Anglican Church are unacceptable to the Holy Orthodox Church. I make this apology for the Anglicans whom as Christian gentlemen I greatly revere, that the loose teaching of a great many of the prominent Anglican theologians are so hazy in their definitions of truths, and so inclined toward pet heresies that it is hard to tell what they believe. The Anglican Church as a whole has not spoken authoritatively on her doctrine. Her Catholic-minded members can call out her doctrines from many views, but so nebulous is her pathway in the doctrinal world that those who would extend a hand of both Christian and ecclesiastical fellowship dare not, without distrust, grasp the hand of her theologians, for while many are orthodox on some points, they are quite heterodox on others. I speak, of course, from the Holy Orthodox Eastern Catholic point of view. The Holy Orthodox Church has never perceptibly changed from Apostolic times, and, therefore, no one can go astray in finding out what She teaches. Like Her Lord and Master, though at times surrounded with human malaria—which He in His mercy pardons—She is the same yesterday, and today, and forever (Heb. 13:8 ) the mother and safe deposit of the truth as it is in Jesus (cf. Eph. 4:21). - Pastoral Letter

In fact, if our relations with the Anglicans is to be a model for how we go about discussions today, then shouldn't we be exiting from the WCC soon? Wouldn't breaking such ties be a closer emulation of what went on in the last century or so? We can point to certain years and say "see, how friendly they were!" But what was the end of all this friendliness and discussion and whatnot? At the end of this Pastoral letter (which was meant to be read by both "Clergy and Laity"), Bp. Raphael said something which would today no doubt be labeled as sectarian:

As to members of the Holy Orthodox Church living in areas beyond the reach of Orthodox clergy... I further direct that Orthodox Christians should not make it a practice to attend the services of other religious bodies, so that there be no confusion concerning the teaching or doctrines. Instead, I order that the head of each household, or a member, may read the special prayers which can be found in the Hours in the Holy Orthodox Service Book, and such other devotional books as have been set forth by the authority of the Holy Orthodox Church.

One other point. There are lots of examples from Church history that we could bring up... that doesn't make them good guidelines. The canons should be our guidelines (literally), with history (as a whole, not isolated instances) being our context for interpreting them. St. Gregory the Theologian's sister one time went into the altar and took the eucharist and spread it over her body, thinking to cure her sickness by this bold action. Should we start doing the same? Or was that perhaps a strange, and not altogether pious, example, that we should try to avoid emulating (even if a saintly person did it, and one of the greatest saints tried to cover for her)?