ROCOR - read between the lines

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=9699236

[my off hand remarks in brackets]

May 12 2004 11:29AM
Head of Orthodox Church Outside Russia to visit Russia
NEW YORK. May 12 (Interfax) - The head of the Orthodox Church Outside Russia hopes that opponents to his church's rapprochement with the Moscow Patriarchate will realize that their position is wrong [ecuspeak for: we have already decided to be apostates and we hope as many people as possible become apostates with us].

"We have educated a fourth generation of clergymen [ecuspeak for: we have brainwashed through our seminaries many of our people to think a new way], but there are some people who still remember the campaign against the Russian Orthodox Church in Soviet times [ecuspeak for: there are still people who remember Orthodoxy]. These people were either subject to or witnessed the persecution of the church [ecuspeak for: these people witnessed the MP cease to exist and saw the creation of the Atheist tool]. And they still have difficulty realizing the nature of the changes taking place in Russia," [ecuspeak for: these people still have a difficult time being deluded by the MP's new image and marketing campaign] is Metropolitan Lavr told Interfax on Wednesday, prior to his visit to Russia.

The Orthodox Church Outside Russia has not been preventing its followers from voicing their opinions on what is currently taking place.[ecuspeak for: we have not learned the brutal silencing tactics of Bartholomew or our KGB brothers yet, but...] "I hope, however, that they will soon realize these fundamental changes and remember that repentance can heal all previous wounds," [ecuspeak for: let's pretend they have repented and are no longer practicing apostates from the faith] he said.

During his trip to Russia, due to begin on May 14, Metropolitan Lavr will meet with Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Alexy II [aka "Drostov" {or whatever)] and members of the Holy Synod [Former KGB].

The visit's agenda will include a trip to the place in Yekaterinburg where the family of Tsar Nicolas II was murdered. [/color]

[bogoliubtsy]

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=9699236

[my off hand remarks in brackets]

May 12 2004 11:29AM
Head of Orthodox Church Outside Russia to visit Russia
NEW YORK. May 12 (Interfax) - The head of the Orthodox Church Outside Russia hopes that opponents to his church's rapprochement with the Moscow Patriarchate will realize that their position is wrong [ecuspeak for: we have already decided to be apostates and we hope as many people as possible become apostates with us].

"We have educated a fourth generation of clergymen [ecuspeak for: we have brainwashed through our seminaries many of our people to think a new way], but there are some people who still remember the campaign against the Russian Orthodox Church in Soviet times [ecuspeak for: there are still people who remember Orthodoxy]. These people were either subject to or witnessed the persecution of the church [ecuspeak for: these people witnessed the MP cease to exist and saw the creation of the Atheist tool]. And they still have difficulty realizing the nature of the changes taking place in Russia," [ecuspeak for: these people still have a difficult time being deluded by the MP's new image and marketing campaign] is Metropolitan Lavr told Interfax on Wednesday, prior to his visit to Russia.

The Orthodox Church Outside Russia has not been preventing its followers from voicing their opinions on what is currently taking place.[ecuspeak for: we have not learned the brutal silencing tactics of Bartholomew or our KGB brothers yet, but...] "I hope, however, that they will soon realize these fundamental changes and remember that repentance can heal all previous wounds," [ecuspeak for: let's pretend they have repented and are no longer practicing apostates from the faith] he said.

During his trip to Russia, due to begin on May 14, Metropolitan Lavr will meet with Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Alexy II [aka "Drostov" {or whatever)] and members of the Holy Synod [Former KGB].

The visit's agenda will include a trip to the place in Yekaterinburg where the family of Tsar Nicolas II was murdered. [/color]

Some of your comments were made on things Metropolitan Laurus didn't even say, but were simply interpretations of the author. Met. Laurus never said "The head of the Orthodox Church Outside Russia hopes that opponents to his church's rapprochement with the Moscow Patriarchate will realize that their position is wrong ", so please, don't comment on it.

Also, do you realize the issue at hand? ROCOR is not talking about placing itself administratively under the MP. They are discussing being in eucharistic communion. Your comments are rude, crass, and basically non-sensical. Maybe it would be easy to "read between the lines" as you do if the rest of us had a view of Orthodoxy that is tainted with demons, betrayels, scandal, and an unwillingness to understand that times and people change. Christ is still the head of the Orthodox Church, and we are still guaranteed his guidance.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

bogoliubtsy,

I'm sorry you were offended by my comments. I suppose I felt equally offended by Met. Laurus' comments, which I found presumptuous, sentimental, and as usual, lacking depth of the real issues at hand.

You said:

Christ is still the head of the Orthodox Church, and we are still guaranteed his guidance.

The pope says this, which is why he thinks he's infallible.

[photi]

I may be ignorant, but if ROCOR was under MP and in eucharistic communion with them (or vice versa) before MP went sour, wouldn't 'new' eucharistic communion just throw things back to 'the way they were'? IOW, If ROCOR and MP had eucharistic communion again, that would entail the 'full' communion thereby bringing ROCOR back under MP?
Once again, pardon my ignorance and please, correct me if I am wrong.
Christ is Risen! :mrgreen:

[ania]

First of all OoD, I find your comments offensive & rude. You seem to think the Met. Lavr is a stupid old fool. Have you ever even met the man??? Also, if you don't realize that some things can be lost in translation (I work in the translation industry, I know that it happens ALL the time, we loose clients if it is not done well), then you aren't very smart yourself. Also, aren't you not even in ROCOR? Why on earth are you sticking your nose into their/our business then. Look to your own salvation if you think ours is lost.
Also, actually, most the older folk who are speaking caution, etc were born AFTER the revolution. By then there was no free church. If they were born before then, they were to little to remember what was going on at that time. No offense to them, of course, either. They grew up in a horrible era, I highly respect their opinion. Remember, Met. Lavr, Vl. Alypy are OF THAT SAME GENERATION!!! & for the most part, they are saying, "Show us how they have changed, & we will believe!" They are not saying "They are all out evil, they are damned to hell!"
phwtioc, Eucheristic Communion does not mean ROCOR is giving administrative power to the MP. We will se what comes of Met. Lavr's trip.
Faith, mates, faith. Oh, and add a little hope as well.

[Vicki]

Christ is Risen!

Dear Ania,

OOD's rule of prayer includes making 6 offensive comments about someone else's jurisdiction before breakfast...As yet, he fails to see that all this does is make people take everything he says with "OH NO, NOT AGAIN"

OOD, if the only way you can promote your own jurisdiction and justify your choice is by deriding others, I would question your choice. There is no need to point out, in sneering tones, your personal thoughts on this matter, in places where you KNOW your audience includes ROCOR members. You fail to display love by so doing. When we correct others as to their faults, it is done in love and charity, not constant streams of insult. Such correction should be resticted to the posts of individuals, only, and not to what you have decided they personally believe.

If this were a single incident, I would PM you about it, but as you have no problem dishing out insults to others, I assume you will not mind being likewise castigated for your intolerant, rude behaviour?

If you DO mind, then I ask you to consider the effect your OWN "pronouncements" have on readers. Correction of an individual's theological misaprehensions made in conversational threads on this board are one thing...Continual battering and bashing is another, and all it indicates is that you are looking for self-righteousness and the justification of your own soul by the vehemence with which you condemn others.

Well, got news for you buddy...Christ said "Love"...not "Bash". And also something about stone-throwing. I am very glad you are without sin.

As I am NOT, I ask the Lord to forgive me for the stone I have thrown at OOD, and the forgiveness of the Cafe for the tirade. Forgive me for my words, OOD, but consider them, please, as they are meant well, although spoken harshly.

Vicki

[Seraphim Reeves]

Ania,

phwtioc, Eucheristic Communion does not mean ROCOR is giving administrative power to the MP. We will se what comes of Met. Lavr's trip.

I don't see how this makes a difference - if anything, the act of not handing over administrative control makes the claims of many within ROCOR (who emphasize the provisional nature of ROCOR, etc) ring even more hollow. If the MP is in fact a real part of the Russian Orthodox Church, and the ROCOR is satisified with her to the point of entering communion with her (as firm a recognition of her legitimacy as is possible), then there is actually no good reason, given ROCOR's original mandate not to submit to the authority of the MP and adminstratively dissolve into her.

Seraphim