Pictures of Miracles?

Anastasios · Post by **Anastasios** » Mon 10 May 2004 11:18 am

OrthodoxLearner wrote:
I take it you believe in the fatima "visions" too.

Nektarios

I don't see how you can get from point A to point B on that one.

anastasios

PFC Nektarios · Post by **PFC Nektarios** » Mon 10 May 2004 11:40 am

Several Muslims were converted to Christ because of this miracle, so it is authentic.

I am sure serveral people at fatima were converted because of this so called marian apperition, donest mean it was "authentic".

In Christ
Nektarios

Anastasios · Post by **Anastasios** » Mon 10 May 2004 1:22 pm

OrthodoxLearner wrote:
Several Muslims were converted to Christ because of this miracle, so it is authentic.

I am sure serveral people at fatima were converted because of this so called marian apperition, donest mean it was "authentic".

In Christ
Nektarios

But what was the message of Fatima? Conversion of Russia. Given this, it is doubtful it was authentic. Of course, if by conversion of Russia it was meant "back to Christianity" and not to RCism, then maybe it was authentic.

I judge miracles by their fruit and by the authenticity of the message. What do you find objectionable about Zeitoun?

anastasios

Anastasios · Post by **Anastasios** » Mon 10 May 2004 2:21 pm

I realized that some people unfamiliar with Fatima might not know what I meant. At Fatima, the Theotokos was reported to have asked those to pray for the conversion of Russia. This was in 1917 as the Revolution was unfolding. Some some this as a conversion of Russia to RCism; others saw it as a conversion of Russia back to Christianity away from atheistic communism.

anastasios

away · Post by **away** » Mon 10 May 2004 3:42 pm

If you want i can photograph myself waking from sleep to record the miracle of my wretched self being granted another day in which to find repentance Everything He does is miraculous, Glory to our God and may His will be done in our lives.

Tessa · Post by **Tessa** » Mon 10 May 2004 6:39 pm

I have some serious doubts about this appearance of the Theotokos over this church. Wasnt this a monophysite church?

In Christ
Nektarios

You're such a brat.

I really love how when a person converts to Orthodoxy and changes their name it gives them authority on EVERYTHING and an almost "holier-than-thou" attitude starts to prevail. I'm referrinh to ALL of your posts since your conversion.

It's reminiscent of being around former alcoholics.

Don't take this the wrong way, I think we are around the same age and I too consider myself zealous for Orthodoxy but, dude, tone it down.

Anyway here is another site. It's from Russia and that probably people in the MP so you all might doubt it but, whatever.
http://rus-sky.com/miracles/indexen.htm

In Christ,
Tessa

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Tue 11 May 2004 1:03 pm

anastasios

We have to judge a miracle by its fruit. Several Muslims were converted to Christ because of this miracle, so it is authentic.

I would respectfully disagree with your conclusion--leastwise, if you are only basing it on the conversion of an undetermined number of people. Several Muslims being converted is hardly a lot of fruit to judge. Whether they were converted to non-chalcedonianism is an entire issue in itself, but I'll go along with the idea (for discussion's sake) that they "converted to Christ". But what does this prove? How many might have been led by the "miracle" to put their faith in miracles and signs, instead of faith in God and his mysterious, often-times difficult, ways? Do you not think that Satan would risk losing some to Christ if he thought he could secularize a great many more? (ie. if he could take their attention away from God and put it on something else--anything else--even something as seemingly good as a marian apparition or miracle)

I'm not saying that this apparition in particular is demonic or satanic in origin. I'm just offering an alternative view that I think is possible. I don't think we can just say "oh, a few were converted, well it must be legit then". The conversions might be (seemingly) good fruit, but we need to examine all the fruit to know for sure. Part of that examination would seem to be how the supposed "miracle" changed the larger picture. I mean, it's not as if Orthodoxy is rich in Marian apparitions (though they aren't unheard of): so why then, and why there, and for what purpose? Perhaps you know the answers to these questions already?