Interesting thoughts from a ROCOR priest.

[bogoliubtsy]

How did I know this would devolve into this.

The question is over contact with the older Russian clergy who clearly knew the position of the Church Abroad. The question is also over which clergy were trained within the tradition of the Church Abroad. Now, it seems the clergy who actually had contact with the old Russian clergy and were trained at Holy Trinity Seminary with ROCOR's greats are the same clergy who the non-theologically trained (and those who never had contact with the old clergy)clergy are accusing of "modernism" and "changing course". In fact, the majority of the clergy who left ROCOR never understood it to begin with, as they had never trained with the older clergy who understood the positions of the Church Abroad. Also, if you are going to criticize Holy Trinity's course of study and still call yourself a "traditionalist", you've lost your mind. Holy Trinity teaches based on pre-revolutionary thought on theology and the teachings of ROCOR's great emigres of the past. These great emigres, who, incidentally, trained the ROCOR priests who are still in ROCOR.

[bogoliubtsy]

I thought so too, but I don't think that is what Fr. Alexandre was saying, but he unwittingly made the case.

"professing to be wise they become fools"

He made this case? Why? Because he does not agree with "Orthodoxy or Death"?

[bogoliubtsy]

Most of all, it has to be remembered that the seminary system has a limited history in Orthodoxy, and even then only recently penetrated some parts of the Orthodox world (they were most common in Russia prior to the revolution). They are an import from the Roman Catholics, who themselves only devised this system towards the end of the middle ages...arguably it's a system tailored for their own (distorted) view of what normal priestly life must constitute (all celibate clergy, acting as low level foot soldiers in a fundamentally "pyramidal" heirarchy headed at the top by the infallible Pope).

Before this system, in both the west and the east, Priests were generally formed gradually, directly under their Bishop - their formation being very much a matter of continual discernment, and familiarity with the local heirarchy. Not every Priest needed to be a quote "theologian", and much less a "philosopher" (which is in fact what most people really mean when they speak of "theologians" - philosopher/historians) - rather they need Godliness, and the character to lead their flock. If anything, "theology" properly speaking is not a species of philosophy or a primarily academic discipline - rather it is the putting into words of that which can be known of God; "theo", "logos". This is why to some extent, both the status of "theologian" and "mystic" are, strictly speaking, the calling of every genuine Christian - as one advances on "the way", so too do they advance in these.
Seraphim

This is not at all the case. What of the famous second century Catechetical School of Alexandria?

[bogoliubtsy]

Any comments? It's rare you folks don't have anything to say.

How can ROAC claim to know the "real ROCOR" when none of its members were taught by ROCOR's greats? Who knows the REAL ROCOR better: Priests who trained under Archbishop Averky, personally knew or were ordained by Met. Philaret, and studied with professor Andreyev...or those who NEVER did these things. Did any of ROAC's members have real contact with these teachers of the past? If not, on what basis do they claim authority over knowing the true position of ROCOR?

WHY ARE THOSE WHO TRAINED UNDER THE GREATS STILL IN ROCOR?!

[Daniel]

This is purely speculation, but maybe they are waiting until the bitter end, so-to-speak. Maybe they are waiting to see how this whole reconciliation thing works out. Some I know will likely leave if it is done in a spirit of compromise. Maybe Fr. Alexander's list more illistrates who as more patient. But than again, this is just me speculating.

[尼古拉前执事]

How can ROAC claim to know the "real ROCOR" when none of its members were taught by ROCOR's greats?

Since you make this claim, tell me who you think ordained Bp Gregory, Fr Andrei and Fr Vladimir? Then tell me why you do not think these bishops were greats.

[bogoliubtsy]

Perhaps ordination, but where was the training done? Where did their Orthodox education take place. Was not Bishop Gregory a monk at Holy Transfiguration Monastery before he went off on his own?