Greek men seek bilateral deal with Bulgaria to find wives

[Justin Kissel]

Sometimes I wonder why people look to attack others. Perhaps they feel slighted, or like they must repay one jab with another.

Sometimes I wonder why people look to attack others. Perhaps they feel guilty (sub-consciously, for they are too immature to consciously contemplate their faults) for their own mistakes, and so attack others for doing/saying the very things they once did (and perhaps still do).

Sometimes I wonder why people go on and on about things that they have no clue about, just because something doesn't go along with their generalized impression of things. Perhaps they don't like the boat being rocked, and choose to either ignore or rebuke anyone who would dare move an inch outside of a pre-conceived circle of ideas/opinions.

Sometimes I wonder why I can see things so clearly intellectually, but can't put the same things into practice. Perhaps I am scared that if I do "turn the other cheak," I won't have much of a cheak left. "Cheak" here is of course symbolic of something more important and profound... though I'm not sure exactly what it represents.

Sometimes I wonder why I do all that I do, when it would perhaps be better to do little of what I do. Perhaps it is a Protestant hold-over... wanting to "share knowledge" so that we "can all understand better". Petty reason to risk one's soul.

Sometimes I fear when the majority applaud, but then another place in scripture says that the majority should applaud you. It's all very confusing! Perhaps I don't understand because it is not my place to understand.

Sometimes I wonder why people are so inconsistent, but then I look in the mirror and realise that I am no better. Perhaps it's easier to judge than to inspect one's self, especially when those you are judging are being hypocritical about their inconsistency and judging others (though by judging the hypocritical judgers I become a hypocritical judger myself!)

Sometimes I wish I could just leave the world and follow what God would give me. This is just pride and spiritual lust, though: what God "gave me" is what I have right here, right now. God gave me my anger. He gave me my pride. He gave me my failures. Since God is all good, he did not "give it" like he might give a blessing, but since God allowed me to become this way, I say that he gave it to me, since he did allow it for my own growth.

Sometimes I wonder, why do we judge others for using "dry" or "western" language, for talking about theology while we accuse them of being removed from proper praxis. How do we know their praxis!? It is possible that the more pious they are, the less we'd know of their specific doings.

Sometimes I wonder why people have such a hard time growing in thought, and insist on holding to the same beliefs, opinions, and so forth, even when they can be shown to be wrong. I experience this a lot, and perhaps it contributed to my little idiocy 2 weeks ago. Perhaps not. Hindsight is rarely 20/20 (it's usually anachronistic).

Staying at the hospital for a couple weeks taught me two things: I am capable of breaking out of my prison, and I am, right now, totally, sinfully evil. I will not force my evil upon you, but will attempt to be cleansed.

[尼古拉前执事]

We all fall short Justin, that is why we have confession. I think most here know the talk and can talk it. I know I can talk the talk, but stumble in walking the walk. So you are not alone in that. It is all part of the struggle on the process to final theosis.

[Christopher]

You think a supposed lack of women in Greece is bad? I just read a news article on yahoo.com where some scientists said that the dinosaurs were wiped out because there was a lack of females. (Something about the temperature and environmental conditions caused lots more males than females to be born)

On a different note, when I was in Greece a few months ago-- I really didn't see a gender ratio in church (or outside of) much different than that here in the United States.

[Etienne]

I just hope the men get all they are hoping for...................

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

I think Justin is more right than wrong. Greece has become a very very materialistic country.

I often hear people say how its easier to raise children Orthodox in America than in Greece - this because, when the children are growing up in Greece they look around and see all the other children doing this or doing that, and they say, "you see mom, they are Orthodox too." At least in America children can make the distinction easier.

Anyone who has been to Greece can and will tell you, and I hate to make general statements but have no problem with this one, the only place left with any sense of piety are the small towns that have lost all their children to the EU and the mega-city Athens.

I can say confidently, that in all probability, whatever appearance of Orthodoxy the Church of Greece may yet still have, will be soon lost as it inherits its children.

[Justin Kissel]

The thing was, what I said was not my opinion alone, but was what a Greek monk in a Greek monastery in America had told me--said monk having lived in both Greece and on Mount Athos.I just took what he said and expanded on it based on what I've read and heard from others. What I said caused so much of a scandal, though, that I overreacted and deleted the posts. I should have known better than to say anything at all.

[Makis]

Dear OOD,

I think Justin is more right than wrong. Greece has become a very very materialistic country.

Wow, we agree! (just one question: isn' t your good old US of A at least as materialistic?)

I often hear people say how its easier to raise children Orthodox in America than in Greece - this because, when the children are growing up in Greece they look around and see all the other children doing this or doing that, and they say, "you see mom, they are Orthodox too." At least in America children can make the distinction easier.

Oops, here we start disagreeing!
Raising your children Orthodox (though I cannot speak out of experience yet) is, IMHO, not so much a matter of what they see around them, but on what you teach and tell your children.
I guess that anywhere in the world, from Greece to the US to Inner Mongolia children will see around them examples of , let us say, a less than perfect life-style.
And what do you mean with "...in America children can make the distinction easier"? Are the children in the US standard blessed with a higher level of discernment ? Or perhaps you want to imply that the US parents (only the old-calenderist version no doubt) are doing a better job than anywhere else in the world?

Anyone who has been to Greece can and will tell you, and I hate to make general statements but have no problem with this one, the only place left with any sense of piety are the small towns that have lost all their children to the EU and the mega-city Athens

Sorry OOD, but as a person who is living in Greece I have to disagree.

Let me start in a nice way though, by agreeing with one part of your statement: yes, unfortunately the small towns have lost (allmost) all their children to the mega-city Athens (mega for Greek standards, because a city with 4-5 milion inhabitants is, I guess, not really mega for US standards).
Why is the youth going to Athens though? Very simple: with the exception of cities like Thessaloniki, Irakleio etc. the only place to find a job outside of agriculture is in........Athens.
But what you mean with the EU in this statement I do not really understand.

Now the real disagreement: I have seen true piety in Athens (where I'm living), great examples of a real spiritual way of live, and I have seen an utter lack of any religious sense in villages, let alone any sense of piety.
This is not to say that you cannot find piety in the villages or moral degradation in the cities, but your black-and-white statement is, to put it mildly, somewhat beside the reallity as I can see daily around me.
But perhaps your opinion has something to do with the fact that the old-calenderists in Greece are mainly to be found in the countryside?

I can say confidently, that in all probability, whatever appearance of Orthodoxy the Church of Greece may yet still have, will be soon lost as it inherits its children

Sorry, again I have to disagree!
The Church of Greece, which not only has the appearance of, but also IS Orthodox (although it seems that you have now the company of the EP in your dislike of the Church of Greece. Isn't that strange, you agreeing on something with the EP?) is, by the Grace of God, very much alive!
Let me give you an example of that: when my wife's spiritual father (of eternal memory) passed away a couple of years ago, the church where his funeral took place was packed, and I mean really packed, and a big part of the people in church where children and young adults (all of them where the spiritual children of this priest) !!
Since the funeral happened on a week day, all these kids had to skip school for it.
Perhaps it doesn't mean to much for you, but when I saw all this crying, black-wearing kids I was convinced of the future of the Church.

And finally,

...and I hate to make general statements but have no problem with this one...

I'm very sorry to say this, but after spending some time on this forum I have to say that you are doing just that very often!

In Christ,

Makis