Moderator: Mark Templet
TomS wrote:From the GOA website:
The salvation of all people, including non-Christians, depends on the great goodness and mercy of the Omniscient and Omnipotent God who desires the salvation of all people. Those who live in faith and virtue, though outside the Church, receive God's loving grace and salvation.
The link:
Remember my comment in the Praxis section Tom? 
So why would one ever join the Church if this was true? Why did the apostles go out and convert people?
We can take for granted that God is loving and merciful toward his entire creation. In fact, this we must compulsorily take for granted as axiomatic of the Orthodox Christian faith.
God has given us a path to salvation and immortality through Christ.
We partake of the Lord's Grace through the Sacraments, the most august of which is the Holy Eucharist.
Grace is a gift from God that cannot be manipulated by mankind in any way.
Orthodoxy, being the richest of the Lord's "many mansions" (which we do not know) obviously receives the lion's share of efficient Grace, though this does not presuppose a Vaticanesque monopoloy precept for Orthodoxy in her entirety nor within a certain particular jurisdiction.
Who are we to say that God imparts no increment or species of Grace to any but x or y and under certain specific preconditions? Such an idea even alone savors of Latin Scholasticism.
The project of governing Grace becomes even more difficult when one considers that we cannot exhaustively define nor even comprehend much less measure or regulate what lies within the perview of God Alone, the gift of Grace.
Faith leads us to Orthodoxy, not a pridefully (and stupidly) assumed understanding of Grace.
Sincerely:
Joseph
When I was reading all the messages in this post, I guess I looked
at it in a different way.
The scripture of St. Luke, 12:48 came to mind:
.....For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be
required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they
will ask more.
We who profess to possess the true faith, will be held much more highly
accountable, than those who do not possess it. I think the weight of
the issue is more heavily upon us. What are we doing with that truth?
Are we doing as the apostles and sharing the Orthodox Faith with those
we work with and those whom we are associated with? Are we living Icons of Christ, so that others are drawn to the Orthodox Faith.
It reminds me of a story, about a Priest who's daughter became quite ill.
Members of the Parish rallied together and went to Church and prayed for her to get better and when in their homes did the same. They visited her at the Priest home and gave her words of encouragement and brought food for the family. Then one day, the Priest was found crying
very heavily. The Parishioners wondered why he was crying, when after all, his daughter was delivered from her sickness. He responded that he was saddened because many others in the Parish had similar situations befall them, and yet, the Parishioners had not acted the same towards them, as they did towards he and his family.
The bottom line is...we need to reach out to all those who are not
of the Orthodox Faith and share the good news, the fullness of the
Truth, once delivered unto the saints. We can go debating about whether or not God's grace is with this group of Protestants or whomever, but
our Lord and Savior issued forth the call - To go, not to debate, but to
go out into all the world. We have a couple right now that is currently attending a "Calvinistic" Church, and we have been sharing with them about Orthodoxy. They see their church going the way of the "Willow
Creek"/"Saddleback" philosophy of running a church. Things continue to get watered down...So they are open to Orthodoxy, and God willing, we as a family will be able to be used by God to bring them into the faith.
It is useless for me to debate whether they have grace or no grace, as
I am offering them the Fullness of Truth, as opposed to what they currently have. I guess I will use a Billy Graham analogy: Religion is like a vaccine that prevents you from getting the real thing. Well, I will take that and say: Anything other than Orthodoxy is like a vaccine that prevents you from getting the real thing. I want them to possess the "real thing".
With humble bow,
Rd. Chrysostomos
Hello All,
Below is an article by Metropolitan Philaret of Blessed Memory that is related to the topic at hand. He is usually quoted for his canonical strictness and hardline views but he shows another, softer side in it. It really answers the question for me.
Savva
http://www.pastornet.net.au/jmm/articles/9077.htm
Question: If the Orthodox faith is the only true faith, can Christians of other confessions be saved? May a person who has led a perfectly righteous life on earth be saved on the strength of his ancestry while not being baptized as Christian?
Answer: "For He saith to Moses I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not him that willeth, nor of him that runneth (struggleth), but of God that showeth mercy" (Rom. 9:15-16). In the Orthodox Church we have the path to salvation indicated to us and we are given the means by which a person may be morally purified and have direct promise of salvation. In this sense, St. Cyprian of Carthage says that "outside the Church there is no salvation". In the Church is given that of which Apostle Peter writes to Christians (only Christians): "According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And besides this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience, and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if, these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2Peter 1:3-8). And what should one say of those outside the Church, who do not belong to her? Another Apostle provides us with an idea: "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth" (1Cor.5:12-13). God "will have mercy on whom He will have mercy" (Rom. 9:18). It is necessary to mention only one thing that to "lead a perfectly righteous life", as the questioner expressed it, means to live according to the commandments of the Beatitudes - which is beyond the power of one outside the Orthodox Church without the help of grace which is concealed within it. The question: Can the heterodox (i.e. those who do not belong to Orthodoxy - the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church) be saved has become particularly painful and acute in our days. In attempting to answer this question, it is necessary, first of all, to recall that in His Gospel the Lord Jesus Christ Himself mentions but one state of the human soul which unfailing leads to perdition, i.e. blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:31-32). The Holy Spirit is, above all, the Spirit of Truth, as the Saviour loved to refer to Him. Accordingly, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is blasphemy against Truth, conscious and persistent opposition to it. The same text makes it clear that even blasphemy against the Son of Man - i.e. the Lord Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God Himself - may be forgiven men, as it may be uttered in error or in ignorance and, subsequently, may be covered by conversion and repentance (an example of such a converted and repentant blasphemer is the Apostle Paul, See Acts 26:11, and I Tim 1:13). If however, a man opposes the Truth which he clearly apprehends by his reason and conscience, he becomes blind and commits spiritual suicide, for he thereby liken himself to the devil, who believes in God and dreads Him, yet hates, blasphemes, and opposes Him. Thus, man's refusal to accept Divine Truth and his opposition thereto makes him a son of damnation. Accordingly, in sending His disciple to preach, the Lord told them: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mk. 16-16), for the latter heard the Lord's Truth and was called upon to accept it, yet refused, thereby inheriting the damnation of those who "Believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (II Thes. 2:12) The Holy Orthodox Church is the repository of the divinely revealed Truth in all its fullness and fidelity to the Apostolic Tradition. Hence, he who leaves the Church, who intentionally and consciously falls away from it. Joins the ranks of its opponents and become a renegade as regards to Apostolic Tradition. The Church dreadfully anathematizes such renegades, in accordance with the words of the Saviour Himself, "And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector". (Matt. 18:17) and of the Apostle Paul: "But even if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you, than what you have received, let him be accursed". (Gal.1:8-9), threatening them with eternal damnation and calling them to return to the Orthodox fold, It is self-evident, however, that sincere Christians who are Roman Catholics, or Lutherans, or members of other non-Orthodox confessions, cannot be termed renegades or heretics - i.e. those who knowingly pervert the Truth…* They have been born raised and are living according to the creed which they have inherited, just as do the majority of you who are Orthodox; in their lives there has not been a moment of personal and conscious renunciation of Orthodoxy. The Lord, "Who will have all men be saved" (I Tim 2:4) and "Who enlightens every man born into the world" (Jn. 1:9), undoubtedly is leading them also towards salvation in His own way. With reference to the above question, it is particularly instructive to recall the answer once given to an "inquirer" by the Blessed Theophan the Recluse. The blessed one replied more or less thus: "You ask, will the heterodox be saved… Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour, Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such concern. Study yourself and your own sins… I will tell you one thing, however, should you being Orthodox, and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever." We believe the foregoing answer by the saintly ascetic to be the best that can be given in this matter.
Archimandrite Philaret
(Metropolitan Philaret of blessed repose)
*The Greek word for 'heresy' is derived from the word for 'choice' and hence inherently implies conscious, willful rejection or opposition to the Divine Truth manifest in the Orthodox Church. Orthodox Life, Vol. 34, No. 6, 1984