Saint Nicholas Planas of Athens

romiosini · Post by **romiosini** » Thu 18 March 2004 11:17 pm

Lord Have Mercy!

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Mon 22 March 2004 6:55 pm

Such a touchy subject...

romiosini · Post by **romiosini** » Mon 22 March 2004 8:52 pm

Lord Have Mercy!

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Tue 23 March 2004 4:22 pm

Well... I don't want to say anything about anyone in particular. Let me just say this: much like salvation, being a saint is part of a paradox. We can simultaneously affirm two seemingly opposite things. First, we say that there is no grace, and no true saints (in the Orthodox sense), outside the Church. Therefore, even schismatics cannot have saints. On the other hand, after having painted everything black and white, Orthodoxy likes to splash all sorts of various other colors onto the canvas of life, for it is indeed a fact that some Saints of our Church were considered schismatics or outside the Church, and indeed might have been in some administrative and other ways seperated from the Orthodox of their times. So, in cases like this, I'll wait till the mind of Christ is made clear over the coming years and decades. I have a couple articles in mind while I'm saying all of this, though I can't find them at the moment. Let me check some stuff at home, and hopefully I can then give some links.

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Wed 24 March 2004 7:01 pm

I'm afraid I couldn't find the articles I was speaking of, though I believe that OrthodoxyorDeath knows one of the ones I am thinking of, and could perhaps provide a link once he returns (after Lent). The article that I have in mind discusses some of the events of the time of Saint Photius, the various factions and schisms. It was a very interesting article, and very relevant to this thread (as at least a part of the Orthodox solution to the paradox I spoke of).

Etienne · Post by **Etienne** » Sun 13 June 2004 9:21 pm

I have read of this gentle and pious priest, as well as visiting the small church he served in central Athens. I took incense made by the monastic brotherhood in Brookwood, England. The folks at the Church loved the incense and were amazed at its origins.

This ready tendency to 'categorise' people as 'in' or 'out' of the Church greatly disturbs me. Is this an Orthodox pattern or something that 'smacks' of a Latin tendency to put everything into boxes? More concerning is the increasing fragmentation, claims and counter-claims by this or that faction. Many, very sadly, have histories which are troubling........... Neither does Orthodoxy make or canonise saints as do the Latins, but rather recognises that that is.

The Church as always has wheat and tares growing side by side. God will judge, not us as individuals.

It reminds me of a visit to an Old Calendarist Church were the priest was most friendly but some of the congregation got themselves into a lather trying to get from me the exact date my son was baptised, as if it was one day he was Orthodox but if it was the next day he was not. The behaviour and activities of some reminds one of an insurance assessor trying to knock back any claim rather than a body who may be known by the 'love they have for one another'.

My concern, and surely the concern of many, will be how will I be found on that Dread Day of Judgement......... :ohvey:

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat 19 June 2004 7:00 pm

There is no dogmatic difference between Old Calendarist Orthodox Christians and New Calendarist Orthodox Christians! :shock: We are all members ONE Church. Which calendar you use is just a matter of habits and taste... If the Calendar really mattered, the Diptychs of the Orthodox Church wouldn't have the names of the Greek(New Calendarist) bishops as well as those of the Russian(Old Calendarist) bishops!