ROCOR position towards the MP.

[Chrysostomos]

Nicholas wrote:

Not a hypothetical we need to worry about. I concur with the words of St. Philaret on this one.

Not too fast Nicholas, with men these things might be impossible,
but with God, nothing is impossible.

Let's leave the current Patriarch aside. Hypothetically, a new
Patriarch replaces him. This Patriarch, acknowledges all the wrongs
on the part of the MP. He acknowledges that WCC is something
that the Orthodox Church should not participate in and asks
forgiveness on behalf of the MP for all wrongs done in the past.
It is a possibility. We must always leave the door open
for an opportunity for repentance.....

Then the question is asked, what are the "other jurisdictions"
left to do, with nothing preventing them from unifying with
the MP?

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[John the Russian]

OK, let's say, hypothetically, that the MP changes it's spots, like the communists did when perestroika came about, and rejects world orthodoxy, ecumenism, sergianism, dealing in alcohol , tobacco, persecuting the Catacomb church, and what ever else they have gotten involved in. Are not the same people running the show? Can we be sure they had a real change of heart? Is it so easy to shed the sins of the past and to become reformed orthodox christians? Idon't have the answer to that, but I am not encouraged by the prospect of it being reality.

Secondly, in the writings of ROCORs previous bishops it was always stated that the true orthodox church in Russia had gone into the catacombs and tath someday we would reunite with that part of the orthodox church that remained in RUssia. If Russia is indeed truly free then don't we have a responsibility to first reunite with that part of the church that remained faithful? Before we consider uniting with a group of bishops that have been going along with all we struggled against for these last 80 years we must rejoin those who have suffered with us against the Godless regime, not those who were appointed by the communists and now claim to have had a change of heart.

It makes absolutely no sense to even consider what ROCOR today is persuing. It is obvious that there exists in ROCOR an element that has been planted many decades ago by the MP and their superiors. They have slowly been working to destroy and distort the glorious past of ROCOR and the Catacomb church. It looks like they have succeeded in brainwashing many of the clergy as well as the parishoners in to beliving the exact opposite of what the ROCOR has stood for since it was created. They may have won the battle but the war will continue. It has been said that there will be very few faithful left when CHrist returns, but there will be some, and I for one will not be misled and will rejoice in the day when our Savior comes to find our little flock.

[Justin Kissel]

It is obvious that there exists in ROCOR an element that has been planted many decades ago by the MP and their superiors.

Obvious to whom? What makes it so obvious, and what is your evidence for launching such an offensive against the ROCOR?

EDIT--I'm adding this edit to clarify my post. It came off as more confrontational than I meant it to be. I understand that the Soviets did plant people in various organizations and religions, to manipulate them or at least disrupt them. I've never heard anyone say this of ROCOR before, and I found it strange that you would say that it is "obvious". Maybe I'm just oblivious to the obvious?

[Chrysostomos]

John the Russian,

That's why I said, let's assume a new Patriarch of Moscow. New people
running the show, per se'. Your post, I think, assumes that the existing Patriarch is in position.

Nonetheless, let's assume the same question, with the existing Patriarch.
If we have the existing Patriarch come forward and repent of former sins, everything is in place for the unification, what is to prevent it? I think you pointed out very well the response.... "Can we be sure they had a real change of heart? Is it so easy to shed the sins of the past and to become reformed orthodox christians?" We must always leave the door open for repentance, for doesn't it mean - change of heart/mind?

Is would seem that reading your message that it implies that the MP planted people in the ROCOR to create the opportunity that we have
today. That is a possibility, I guess, yet, from what I hear, and having
attended a ROCOR monastery for a time, the sentiment is not espoused
by those that I have discussed it with, Priests or parishioners. It is rather a desire, now that communism has fallen, and definite changes have taken place in Russia, that their is a desire to merge back with the MP.
I for one, am for it. I wish to see the reunification. I think it would be positive for America. As a person who attends an OCA church, it would have positive effects on the OCA as well. It already is, at least in regards to relations between the ROCOR and OCA in the Pacific Northwest. We have been accused of being "ROCOR light" by some, and
perhaps that is an appropriate nickname for our OCA PNW.

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[Daniel]

From most of what I have read the situation of the Russian Church was to desided by an All-Russian council. In my personal opinion that should include the MP, ROCOR, ROAC, ROCiE, the Catacomb Church (whatever is left of it). I think only from that can the whole Russian situation be truly resovled. But this is only my half-informed opinion.

Edited for grammer.

[хорист]

From most of what I have read the situation of the Russian Church was to desided by an All-Russian council. In my personal opinion that should include the MP, ROCOR, ROAC, ROCiE, the Catacomb Church (whatever is left of it). I think only from that can the whole Russian situation can truly be resovled. But this is only my half-informed opinion.[/b]

While that would not be such a bad idea, neither ROAC or ROCiE recognize the MP or ROCOR so I doubt they would even want to be invited to the table. Unfortunate, but probably true.

[Daniel]

From most of what I have read the situation of the Russian Church was to desided by an All-Russian council. In my personal opinion that should include the MP, ROCOR, ROAC, ROCiE, the Catacomb Church (whatever is left of it). I think only from that can the whole Russian situation can truly be resovled. But this is only my half-informed opinion.[/b]

While that would not be such a bad idea, neither ROAC or ROCiE recognize the MP or ROCOR so I doubt they would even want to be invited to the table. Unfortunate, but probably true.

Maybe so, but it would be the best place [All-Russian Council] to plead their case. If they [ROAC, ROCiE] truely believe themselves to be The Russian Church then it would be in their best interest, I think, to come to such a council. Of course, that's assuming that they would even be invited (which I honestly think they should be).