Apprehension, aversion

[尼古拉前执事]

Okay, but I just mentioned the ones known for it. (Both from experience and experience of my friends, online and offline)

[Chrysostomos]

Natasha,

I understand why he makes it too! And you are right, it is the
same "old" argument. Enough already.... I am saying, as
an Orthodox Christian who attends an OCA Church, that has
not been my experience and to make such a statement like
Nicholas has, only creates opportunities for discord and is
not a true statement. It may be a half-truth, predicated upon
one's own personal experience, but not across the board.
That's what gets me. Let Nicholas give us his own personal
examples of when he was in the OCA and the priest was
a mason, or the parish didn't believe in fasting, or some of
the men he personally knew were masons and felt nothing
wrong with that. But why state specific jurisdictions. Gee,
have all of you, your entire Orthodox life kept the fast
completely, without slipping one iota? Share that... Oh, but
then we would be confessing our faults one to another and
then if we made blanket statements about lax fasting habits,
then they wouldn't hold as much water... Additional food
for thought during lent, and afterwards....

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[尼古拉前执事]

I expressed the rule from what I have seen heard and experienced, not the exceptions. There are individual parishes in the OCA, the GOA or Antiochian church that are very traditional in praxis, but they are the exception, not the rule. This we get reported from from people within those jurisdictions themselves. But please, can we drop the arguing to truly be in the spirit of Great Lent?

[Грешник]

Here is an additional thought Chrystostomos. Your post is extremely antagonistic.

I do not tihnk that Nicholas said anytihng wrong. How are we, except by our experiences, supposed ot know right from wrong? I must say, I too have had many experiences with the Antiochians and their attitudes towrds these things.

The GOA is the same way. In the GOA church in the city I used ot live, in their temple had the Masonic all-seeing eye all over the walls in betwen their icons and on the ceiling.

The Antiochians, (IN MY OPPINION, FROM THEIR MOUTHS AND THE MOUTHS OF THEIR PARISHONERS AND PRIESTS IN MY TOWN,) I hope that was blatant enough, are very liberal to many things. The Calendar, the Masons, the Saraments, to name a few.

I applaud you Chrysostomos, that you have been able to stay away from all of this, but unfortunately these things are sanctioned by the hierarchs of these synods if their priests speak it from the pulpit, do not question it when it is asked of them and continue by their silence to accept it as OK.

[Chrysostomos]

Nicholas,

I don't think there was an argument brewing. I was expressing
myself just as you did yourself. Can it not also be thought as,
food for thought? Things to consider about ourselves, especially
during Great Lent? Let's not only attempt to be civil during Great
Lent, but all year round. To be those "Living Icons" that Christ calls
us all to be. I submit myself to do so, as I am sure that you, by
your words, do too!!!

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[Chrysostomos]

Juvenaly,

If my comments are viewed by others as antagonistic and have
offended anyone, including yourself, I ask your forgiveness.
That honestly was not my intent on leaving any of my messages
on this board. My words that I have expressed are those out of
frustration. Frustration about the divisions that I unfortunately
acknowledge even exist in the Orthodox faith. Deep saddening
divisions. To me, anyone who is ROAC is my brother. Some
would call them schismatics, I would disagree. Its this pompous
we are better than you attitude that gets me the most, and I
pray that "all of us" would be more humble, and broken hearted,
rather than arrogant and denoucing in tone. Once again, I truly
ask everyone's forgiveness if my words have caused you harm.
My sincere intent is to promote unity and I have felt I have done
this in every message I have left on this board.

With very humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[Joseph D]

Dear Rd. Chrysostomos:

Thank you so much for your honest and reflective replies. Your will to avoid impassioned and repetitive argument speaks to me something of a Christian dignity all too rare in these times.

Dear Group:

To settle about my "Ecumenism, and Masonry" statement, let me point out that in the post I posited not an accusation, but a PERSONAL ANXIETY about such: it is not I who accuses others, but my conscience that accuses ME, you see. I began to hate (yes hate) Masonry even years before I knew anything at all of Orthodoxy. But can I still call the Freemasons damnable rather than simply misguided and yet profess Christ at the same time? Am I not in many ways myself misguided? Yes, friends and neighbors, I am.

Sincerely,
Joseph