Apprehension, aversion

[Joseph D]

Dear Nicholas,

ROCOR is no cult. In fact, I find the standards to be very pious indeed. I am just not happy at present with a unique, specific parish. As far as other Orthodox churches about, we may have a few options, but we would rather give it a little more time than to as it were, desert.

Does anyone else struggle with the problem of schizmatic guilt? I mean deep down. I hear talk about the universal Orthodox Church, but I find little universality of fellowship. This too adds to the psychic dischord and negative emotional valence of attending a church. It is inequitably complicated from my point of view and my own recent experience only proves it still further.

So here we are. I feel that a solution will present itself, that my wife and I will find proper worship together through providence without any impassioned "decision making." We can just let go, and wait for an answer. This must be the right way.

Sincerely,
Joseph

[Natasha]

I think that quite often converts experience this kind of let-down, mainly because they envisioned that they were joining a perfect Church...but of course we all know that there is no such perfection on this earth.

[Chrysostomos]

Nicholas said: I definitely agree with you on the OCA, GOA and Antiochian churches being lax on Masons, Fasting, and
other Canons.

Nicholas,

I don't recall Joseph say that the OCA, GOA and Antiochian
churches were being lax on Masons, Fasting and other Canons....

It's very sad when you make such blanket statements like
this. From everyone that I have spoken to, or know, within
my group of Orthodox brothers and sisters, none are advocates
of the Masons, or are Masons. Nor are we lax on Fasting. As
to Canons, we can go back and forth on those, but to what
end result would we obtain? If you feel you are so the much
better, due to your closer adherence to the canons, due to
belonging to a non-World Orthodoxy Church, and to exceed
all in the endeavors to complete the fasts required than I
and others, then pray for us, but spare us the continual
rehashing of old subjects. What amazes me most, is that
most of the time, this board spends their time pointing out
the weakness of other jurisdictions (World Orthodoxy) or
individuals, than to discuss their own weaknesses/sins.
Someone on this board stated, and I agree, that what is
said on these boards, would many times not be stated in
face to face meetings. It's as if the internet is a license to
criticize and denounce those of the same faith. Oh, it is
out of love and concern that they say this..right? Could they
not private message the individuals. No, that wouldnt allow
for the opportunity to grandstand, to make oneself appear
as if they are "all that" and all others are merely
wanabee Orthodox Christians. I will answer Joseph in a
seperate message, but I am saddened by the carelessness
of many comments made on this board. It really makes
me wonder why even I should continue to be on boards
like this one. Joseph's comments to me are indicative
of many on this board - "with people more cruel and obsessive
than myself". Food for thought during Lent, eh?

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[尼古拉前执事]

My original choice of joining the ROCOR had a great deal to do with my personal anxiety about ecumenism, and about freemasonry, both of which I felt were too readily endorsed or else to easily overlooked by other jurisdictions

[Natasha]

"From everyone that I have spoken to, or know, within
my group of Orthodox brothers and sisters, none are advocates
of the Masons, or are Masons. Nor are we lax on Fasting."

Well, in my experience with various Orthodox churches, I can say that I completely understand why Nicholas would make that comment...this is the same old argument that we constantly revisit, and I don't think anyone really wants to get into it again, especially during this time.

As I said before, there are no perfect churches.

[Chrysostomos]

Joseph,

I wanted to respond to your messages. The thing that I respect
above all else about them, is that you are expressing your
sincere feelings and thoughts. It is evident that you don't have
any axes to grind...just alot of valid points and questions.
I can say that I can relate to many of the things you have said
and feelings that you have felt while attending your Church.
Unfortunately, I don't think the ROCOR has "cornered the
market" in this regard, nor any of the other Orthodox jurisdictions.
The "discoursing with people more cruel & obsessive than myself"
also rings true for me as well. Bottom line...There is no
"perfect jursidiction", as much as anyone here on this board, or
anywhere else could try to convince you otherwise. Actions
speak louder than words, and unfortunately, we all have been
recepients of more words, than actions. The words are many
times not one would assume would come from a "living Icon
of Christ". I sometimes wonder and many times am almost
convinced, that this search for the "perfect jurisdiction", is not
more reflective of our American Protestant heritage. The old
smorgasboard of denominations idea, trying to penetrate the
shield of the Universal Orthodox Church, and seperate all
those of the faith from one another. There is an attitude that
comes across as: "we are the remnant of the "true church",
rather than being part of the Universal Orthodox Church that
Christ himself established. I believe the gates of hell shall
not prevail against the Church, and that it is One. Not a remnant,
but one in Christ. You mentioned that your Priest said that he
was not qualified to be a "spiritual father" to you right now. My
priest had said the same thing. Which leaves one in a perplexing
situation...What to do. Well, I will point to St. Mary of Eygpt as
an example. Probably a good example to use right now during
lent. In her story, we know she went out into the desert. It is
evident that she never had a "spiritual father". Perhaps we all
need to ask for her intercession on our behalf, as she came out
a saint without a spiritual father, and perhaps by the mercy of
God, we will come out not as saints necessarily, but entering
the Kingdom of Heaven. The reason that your and my priest said
what they said, was simply, that there are too few spritually
pious Orthodox Christians on the earth today, that are pious
enough to be spiritual fathers. It is out of humility and humble recognition that our priests make this statement. What I attempt
to do, albiet poorly, is to do what has been espoused by the
Church. Do morning and evening prayers, read the lives
of Saints, the early church fathers, the bible, attend the full
cycle of services. Do acts of kindness, attempt to love my
neighbor, give alms. Attempt to be a "living Icon of Christ".
Do I do these without a slip, no, in honest humility and
humbleness, I fail and yet do not give up, for when I do these
above things, I sense God truly at work in me and the
deification process at work. As to ecumenism and freemasonry,
at our OCA church, there is no discussion or advocation of
such. I do though agree that in America, there is little
universality of fellowship, and that is partly due to our
individualistic culture, our arrogance, our tendency to be
given over to pride and a struggle within American as to
which "jurisdiction" is the "right" one. I have been with a
group of OCAites who have talked smack about ROCOR, and
then been around ROCOR who have talked smack about OCAites.
I end up either walking away, saying nothing, or calling
them on it, both sides. I am finding myself more often now asking/challenging them on their comments and their backing
down once asked. I want to encourage you to stick with the
Universal Orthodox Church. Do the basics, and keep "pressing
towards the mark"! I make a commitment to you to keep
you and your wife in my prayers.

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[Chrysostomos]

Nicholas,

Joseph said "other jurisdictions" - He didn't point out specific
ones like you did. That's a big difference, any way you look
at it.

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos