Modern Non-Chalcedonian (Monophysite) Opinion

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Lucian
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Modern Non-Chalcedonian (Monophysite) Opinion

Post by Lucian »

Perhaps someone would care to address the following remarks by Fr. Paul Verghese, who later became Metropolitan Paulos Mar Gregorios of the Syrian Orthodox Church of India, made in a speech given in Geneva in 1970 at the third consultation of EO and Non-Chalcedonian theologians and printed in the Greek Orthodox Theological Review, Vol. XVI, nos. 1 and 2, 1971, pp. 133-143.

Here, as earlier in the decree, the Tome of Leo is expressly affirmed. The decree actually calls the Tome "the pillar of the right faith." You can perhaps understand that all this is rather difficult for us to accept. For us Leo is still a heretic. It may be possible for us to refrain from condemning him by name, in the interests of restoring communion between us. But we cannot in good conscience accept the Tome of Leo as "the pillar of the right faith" or accept a council which made such a declaration. The council approves explicitly what I clearly regard as heresy in the Tome of Leo: "Each form does in communion with the other what pertains properly to it, the Word, namely doing that which pertains to the Word, and the flesh that which pertains to the flesh." If one rightly understands the hypostatic union, it is not possible to say that the flesh does something on its own, even if it is said to be in union with the Word. The flesh does not have its own hypostasis. It is the hypostasis of the Word which acts through the flesh. It is the same hypostasis of the Word which does the actions of the Word and of his own flesh. The argument of the horos [dogmatic definition] in this Sixth Council is basically unacceptable to us (Review, p. 139; Does Chalcedon, p. 133).

We are unable to say what this council says when it affirms "two wills and two operations concurring most fitly in him"....

To summarize: Acceptance of the Sixth Council is much more difficult for us than the acceptance of Chalcedon. The following are the chief reasons:...

b) We are unable to accept the dithelete formula, attributing will and energy to the natures rather than to the hypostasis. We can only affirm the one united and unconfused divine-human nature, will and energy of Christ the incarnate Lord.

c) We find that this Sixth Council exalts as its standard mainly the teaching of Leo and Agatho, popes of Rome, paying only lip-service to the teachings of the Blessed Cyril. We regard Leo as a heretic for his teaching that the will and operation of Christ is to be attributed to the two natures of Christ rather than to the one hypostasis. The human nature is as "natural" to Christ the incarnate Word as is the divine. It is one hypostasis who now is both divine and human, and all the activities come from the one hypostasis (Review, pp. 140-141; Does Chalcedon, pp. 134-135).

The bolding is mine for emphasis.

I realize these remarks date from 1970, but have the Non-Chalcedonians changed their position?

Are Verghese's statements representative of Non-Chalcedonian opinion?

Am I the only one who sees them as at least Monothelite if not outright Monophysite?

What of the current Non-Chalcedonian claim that they are not Monophysites or Monothelites?

In light of statements like those of Verghese above, can such claims be trusted?

Does anyone out there know of any more current statements of Non-Chalcedonian thought on these subjects?

What of his references to Pope St. Leo the Great as a heretic?

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Regarding Saint Leo (and other Saints), it's my understanding that they came to some sort of compromise in the early 1990's. Something like: "You don't publically call him a heretic, and we won't insist that you publically call him a saint. We won't ask, and you won't tell." Obviously that's not exactly how they put it, but I think that was the jist of it. I don't know how exactly this squares with some of the practical steps taken in realising this union (e.g., "The Holy Synod of Antioch has decided the following matters... The incorporation of the fathers of both Churches and their heritage in general in the Christian education curriculum and theological teaching" - Source)

Lucian
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Post by Lucian »

The ecumenical councils anathematize Dioscorus, Severus, et al; the Fathers refer to them as heretics; yet we will have "union" with those who consider these same persons saints?

The mind boggles.

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Aristokles
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Post by Aristokles »

Lucian wrote:

The ecumenical councils anathematize Dioscorus, Severus, et al; the Fathers refer to them as heretics; yet we will have "union" with those who consider these same persons saints?

The mind boggles.

Brother "Lucian",

It will be like 'ecumenical" talks with the Romans - all talk, no action. Nothing will come of it. Don't worry, my friend from Virginia.

Demetri

Lucian
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Post by Lucian »

Aristokles wrote:
Lucian wrote:

The ecumenical councils anathematize Dioscorus, Severus, et al; the Fathers refer to them as heretics; yet we will have "union" with those who consider these same persons saints?

The mind boggles.

Brother "Lucian",

It will be like 'ecumenical" talks with the Romans - all talk, no action. Nothing will come of it. Don't worry, my friend from Virginia.

Demetri

I hope you're right.

But it seems to me a lot of our Eastern Orthodox brethren have been fooled into thinking the Non-Chalcedonians are "Orthodox."

The refrain, "We believe the same things," has been repeated so many times that we are in danger of becoming mesmerized by it.

But if one reads the dialogue material, the Non-Chalcedonians are saying the same things they did 1500 years ago.

The only difference is that now we seem to be buying it.

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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

But the Antiochians are already in communion with them!

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Monophysite Non-Chalcedonian Oriental "Orthodox Church&

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

Here are some good threads on this topic as well:

Oriental "Orthodox Church"

The New Monophysites

The "Non-Chalcedonians"

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