Moderator: Mark Templet
well, I was just looking at this website and it apears that they have ROCOR, ROCiE, the various ukranian groups, the MS, and the TOC (Cyprianite) listed in their "independent" (that is vagante) jurisdictions linkings. However it does not apear that ROAC is vagante according to them. See even blatant heretics recognize the truth 
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Nicholas Zollars
edited 1 time for spelling
It's more likely (given the date of last update) that he simply wasn't aware of ROAC.
nicholas zollars wrote:
"See even blatant heretics recognize the truth."
from the logical conclusion of ROAC's position concerning the other Orthodox Churches, i dont think that your statement here falls within the realm of possibilty!
as far as ROAC not being vagante in relation to the website you mentioned, i would be far more inclined to side with CGW on this one, who wrote:
"It's more likely (given the date of last update) that he simply wasn't aware of ROAC."
i am sure that you will find many who are far more knowledgable than your "blatant heretic" website author who would consider ROAC to be vagante, among other things.
i am somewhat surprised finding a ROAC supporter that glories in the opinion of "blatant heretics." is this a case of "the end justifies the means," perhaps?
also-you use the word "blatant" in connection with this particular "heretic"-i would not think that a ROAC supporter would recognize any other "kind" of heretic-arent they ALL "blatant"?
another question-did your "blatant heretic" website author list his beliefs on his website? in other words, do you base your pronouncement of this person as a "blatant heretic" on his beliefs, or on mere supposition? i was always taught that casually or jokingly pronouncing or denouncing someone as a "heretic" was a rather incautious path to take. perhaps you are in possession of some sort of "heretic finder," like a dowsing stick kinda thingy? or perhaps someone has supplied you with an absolutely authentic and canonically unquestionable list of all the heretics in existence? hhhhhhmmmmmmmm . . . do let us know! ah! for the good ole days-they used to know what to do with them heretics now, didnt they? nothing like a roaring fire, eh? that usually teaches 'em, now dont it?
oh-and please notice-no smiley face here!
mwoerl
I am not glorying in his opinions. see the smily indicates its a joke. You know, something humerous.
anyways, yes the author has indicated his views (which are heretical) for instance the acceptace of homosexuality, women clergy, and a whole slew of other things. But then again what else can you expect from a group calling itself "St. Oscar Romero Orthodox Ministries."
Nicholas Zollars
Nicholas Zollars wrote:
"yes the author has indicated his views (which are heretical) for instance the acceptace of homosexuality, women clergy, and a whole slew of other things"
this 'heretical" bit gets somewhat out of hand, i think. it seems like people think of it as some badge of honor to pronounce all and sundry as "heretical!" we realize that non orthodox people hold "heretical" beliefs; we realize that anyone involved in the "St Ocar Romero Orthodox" whatever would probably hold "heretical" beliefs. we realize that adherents of ROAC think, apparently, everyone who does not belong to their particular "group" is a "heretic," possibly with the exception of the Lamians, who Bishop Gregory is "fond of," and feels "have an unquestionable canonical foundation," despite Hegumen George's characterization of the fact that the Lamians apparently do not believe there are any orthodox bishops, clergy, or faithful in russia as a "canonical problem" which needs to be addressed, although the Lamians have "addressed it" themselves by themselves "re-establishing an orthodox hierarchy" in russia.
i am sorry to offend anyone who thinks i should not say this, but i feel it needs to be said. if the direction you are taking somehow makes it necessary, to your way of thinking, to continually "denounce" all the heretics you find in other churches, on street corners, and under your bed, i would imagine that direction is one that will lead nowhere. i would also add that if you are so preoccupied with all these "heretics," so that they even force themselves into your so-called "humor," this is another indication, to me, that your direction is a dead end. although the "smiley face" (how very cute!) indicates a "joke," i do not find it humorous. you find it humorous that people have been deceived and adopted heretical beliefs? if so, i could only conclude that it is because you somehow feel a great superiority to these poor souls because of your "superior beliefs," and the "innate superiority" of your political beliefs and, simply, yourself. to be quite honest, that is rather sad on both counts-both for those who hold the heretical beliefs, and for those who find it somehow "humorous" and apparently think this is "fair game" for a joke! oh my! the heretics will burn in hell! wow-what a knee slapper, eh? yuk, yuk, yuk!
of course, the degeneration of so-called "true orthodox" groups into koo-koo land, into bizarro world (such as "re-establishing an orthodox hierarchy in russia," or excommunicating name-worshippers, nestorians, and qabbalists in the same swoop!) you probably do not find humorous or interestingly humorous in that it is ssssoooooooooooo bizarre, but would be all offended and outraged and indignant that someone could actually dare to imply that your particular choice of religion and politics could be made light of. well, let me tell ya-whats good for the goose is good for the gander!
mwoerl
From the aggreen site:
Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church - AKA: Suzdalites. This group, like the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR), seems to have broken away from the canonical Church of Russia in protest to the Russian church's complicity for the sake of survival with the Soviet government. There also seems to be some relationship between this sect and others known as the Free Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Catacomb Church, both of which are outside the unity of world Orthodoxy.
Egads. And of course one must be a neo-papal-patriarchalist to be "inside the unity of world Orthodoxy".
