A Dumb Question

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brendan

A Dumb Question

Post by brendan »

I've been reading the postings on and off for a month or so, and I'll ask this question, even though some might think I'm pretty dense. I'm a recent convert to Orthodoxy and go to an OCA parish, Bulgarian Diocese of Pittsburgh.

I'm a bit confused based on what I've read here, since I see that Met. Herman visits Russia often. I see that ROCOR is in communion with the ROC and talking unity. So that seems to mean the ROCOR and OCA are on the road to reconcilliation via the ROC. I take it that many on the board don't like the OCA. I don't know all the reasons, but could someone please give a short list of the main disagreements you have with them.

-Thanks.

gbmtmas

Another A Dumb Question

Post by gbmtmas »

stbrendan wrote:

I've been reading the postings on and off for a month or so, and I'll ask this question, even though some might think I'm pretty dense. I'm a recent convert to Orthodoxy and go to an OCA parish, Bulgarian Diocese of Pittsburgh.

I'm a bit confused based on what I've read here, since I see that Met. Herman visits Russia often. I see that ROCOR is in communion with the ROC and talking unity. So that seems to mean the ROCOR and OCA are on the road to reconcilliation via the ROC. I take it that many on the board don't like the OCA. I don't know all the reasons, but could someone please give a short list of the main disagreements you have with them.

-Thanks.

I would like add another question to this. If (and that's assuming "if") the ROC and ROCOR enter into communion, and the ROC is in communion with the OCA, then won't this place the ROCOR, at least, in indirect communion (even if the ROCOR and the OCA still are not in direct communion)?

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Natasha
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Post by Natasha »

Well, then it would seem as if everyone would be forced to at least play nice, now wouldn't it :wink: ?

mwoerl

"disagreements" with the OCA . . .

Post by mwoerl »

the main "disagreements" that traditional orthodox have with the OCA can be summed up quite briefly-because of the OCA's extreme modernism, minimalism, its involvement in ecumenism, as well as historical questions.

during the many years that "traditional orthodoxy," especially in the usa, basically meant ROCOR, there were quite rough times in the relations between ROCOR and the OCA/Metropolia (predecessor of the OCA). polemical "wars" went on, and the OCA, in the writings and pronouncements of some of its "leading lights" pronounced that ROCOR was "schismatic," mainly composed of "saber rattling tsar worshippers," "stuck in 19th century russia," "orthodox fundamentalists," etc etc etc. they also did the cutesy "so-called" thing quite a lot-referring to ROCOR as "the so-called 'Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia,' and referred to Metropolitan Philaret as "the would-be ruling Metropolitan . . . "

the Metroplia/OCA, after other traditional orthodox groups became established in the USA, were never -uh- "friendly" towards any of them.

interestingly enough, one of the OCA's main polemical publications against ROCOR, entitled "Synod," was published "anonymously"-no author, publisher, date, or place of publication was included. this wonderful example of hate literature repeated the old "ROCOR collaborated with the nazis" stuff, and included many very hazy allegations, as well as outright lies (that ROCOR initiated the "Croatian Orthodox Church" during WWII, among others.)

also, the OCA's autocephaly, negotiatied with the MP when the MP was undoubtedly completely under the control of the Soviet government-was not something that induced amusement in ROCOR; that this autocephaly was granted with the permission and "blessing" of the Soviet government is taken for granted.

then, of course, there is New Skete-an OCA monastery recieved from the Uniates that continues, with OCA permission, to engage in highly questionable practices . . .

also, there is the historical question. ROCOR maintains that the Metropolia (OCA's predecessor) was an integral part of ROCOR from 1921-1927, then again from 1935-1946. the OCA claims (despite overwhelning evidence to the contrary-such as requests from Metroplitan Theophilus to the ROCOR Synod in Serbia asking permission for the Metropolia to consecrate Bishops, or elevate Bishops to Archbishop, and the report of Bishop Alexei (Panteleeff) to the Metropolia on the gloriofication of St Herman of Alaska, with his insistence that the matter be turned over to the ROCOR Synod in Serbia . . . ) that they were NEVER part of ROCOR. also, the OCA's claims to be the "successor" of the first russian missions to alaska are somewhat historically shaky . . .

also, there were the relations between Metroplitan Platon and the Episcopalians-who virtually bankrolled the Metropolia in the 1920's-when Met Platon attempted to launch an "American Orthodox Church" in 1927, the Episcopalians, who saw themselves as "the American Orthodox Church" (branch theory and all . . .), threatened to revoke funding. Met Platon dropped his "American Orthodox Church" like the proverbial hot potato . . . this creation of Met Platon and the Metropolia went on, on its own, to wreak havoc on Orthodoxy in North America-every off-the-wall vagante "Orthodox" jurisdiction now in existence claims "apostolic succession" from Met Platon's "American Orthodox Church," and the Bishop ordained for it by Met Platon, Aftimios Ofiesh (who "resigned" his episcopate to marry).

ah, this could be the subject of a quite weighty tome . . .

mwoerl

brendan

Re: "disagreements" with the OCA . . .

Post by brendan »

mwoerl wrote:

the main "disagreements" that traditional orthodox have with the OCA can be summed up quite briefly-because of the OCA's extreme modernism, minimalism, its involvement in ecumenism, as well as historical questions.

It seems some kind of reunification is coming. What do you think will happen? Will the OCA become little more traditional, while the ROCOR and ROC become a little less so?

-

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

The day the ROCOR communes with the MP is the day the ROCOR joins the WCC and falls under its own anathema.

brendan

Post by brendan »

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:

The day the ROCOR communes with the MP is the day the ROCOR joins the WCC and falls under its own anathema.

I can tell you now that I've seen more than enough on the WCC's website to know I don't like it. Its really outrageous. Liberalism and ecumenicalism are bad enough, but the WCC is ten times as bad, IMHO.

I understand that many people in the OCA oppose the organization's affiliation with the WCC, but I have been told they do it for the money the WCC gives to the Orthodox Church.

Personally, I'd be very happy if Met. Herman severed all ties with the WCC and any other of these ecumenical/liberal groups. All I see in these groups is heresy and satanic subversion. Are my words too strong?

-

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