Which Churches Are Orthodox?

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Thu 22 January 2004 12:25 pm

Since not many people here believe that the MP, EP, etc are Orthodox and that they are without Grace, which Churches, then, are Orthodox? ROAC, GOC, HOCNA, TOC, etc, etc?

Greg

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Thu 22 January 2004 1:55 pm

Gregory,

I of course could only offer the GOC of Greece, or here in America, the GOC of America. There are others which I would not say are not Orthodox, but because our synod has not yet made formal statements, I am bound to neutrality.

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Thu 22 January 2004 2:40 pm

Just about everyone on this forum is so quick to judge who is not Orthodox and claim that they are Graceless, yet only OOD came forward and was honest about what he thinks.

Is this forum a place where traditional Orthodox in communion with each other come and discuss things or a forum where traditionalist not in communion with each other come and bash the MP?

:ohvey:

Joe Zollars · Post by **Joe Zollars** » Thu 22 January 2004 3:16 pm

In a similar manner as OOD I can only say with gauranteed accuracy that the the ROAC or the the ROAC in America are Orthodox. However there are several instances in which the Synod has made no official pronouncement (the Lamian GOC comes to mind) and therefore must remain neutral.

However if by TOC you mean the Kyprianites which are in communion iwth ROCA, the ROAC and I presume OOD's synod as well would emphatically state that they are not Orthodox and are heretics for they hold to a flawed ecclesiolagy which states that Heretics can have grace. Sort of a HOly Heretic nonsense. This is why what is now the ROAC broke with the ROCA originally.

As for those in world orthodoxy, we must look for this to the Anathama Against Ecumenism issued in 1983 with the blessing of St. Philaret of New York:

The Anathema Against the Heresy of Ecumenism and Its Adherents

To those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that Christ's Church is divided into so-called branches which differ in doctrine and way of life, or that the Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in the future when all branches or sects or denominations, and even religions will be united into one body; and who do not distinguish the priesthood and mysteries of the Church from those of the heretics, but say that the baptism and eucharist of heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore, to those who knowingly have communion with these aforementioned heretics or who advocate, disseminate, or defend their new heresy of Ecumenism under the pretext of brotherly love or the supposed unification of separated Christians,

Anathema!

Clearly from this it can be seen that those within world Orthodoxy are not Orthodox if for no other reason, and there are plenty of others, than the Antiochans are in communion with the Monophysites for all intent and purposes. I also have it on authority from conversations with a particular monophysite that this individual is welcomed to commune at various other juris within world Orthodoxy if it is inconvenient to atttend one of his own churches. This does not even begin to mention ecumenism and the various other heretical trends plaguing the juris of world "Orthodoxy."

Nicholas Zollars

尼古拉前执事 · Thu 22 January 2004 3:57 pm

For ROCOR, they would say themselves, the churches that they are in communion with and then the rest would seem up to the individual ROCOR member. I have seen ROCOR members (and we had a bishop saying this too) saying that they are not in communion with Serbia or the JP here in America and only have communion with the TOCs of Greece, Bulgaria and Romania. Some would say World Orthodoxy does as well, and others would even say that the GOC that OOD is in and ROAC are full of Grace. We had a forum member here who left the Antiochians for ROCOR since he believes the Antiochians to be without grace. Maybe the question to ask is why are certain churches considered to be without grace. People could even say without naming them if they are more comfortable doing so.

Gregory wrote:
Just about everyone on this forum is so quick to judge who is not Orthodox and claim that they are Graceless, yet only OOD came forward and was honest about what he thinks.

You expected everyone to reply in just over 2 hours from your post? Some of us do not have a lot of time to answer every post made here! Give it a week for people to respond and do not expect everyone to do so.

Gregory wrote:
Does the hatred ever stop?

You are the one that seems angry, young sir.

Грешник · Post by **Грешник** » Thu 22 January 2004 3:59 pm

Just a little addition to Nicholas' post up there a bit.

ROAC is also in communion with the Latvian Orthodox Autonomous Church as well as the Josephite and Tikhonite Catacomb Churches of Russia. When the GOCs settle their schisms I am sure we will establish communion with them as well.

Juvenaly

bogoliubtsy · Post by **bogoliubtsy** » Thu 22 January 2004 4:26 pm

Who are the heads of the Josephite and Tikhonite Churches? Are you sure you're not mixing up decades here?