Oriental "Orthodox Church"

[PFC Nektarios]

My question is...

Is the Oriental East still Monophysite Heretics? Do they accept the 7 Ecumenical Councils and what is their take on the Nature of Christ?
Do they still believe that Christ has only one nature/will, just divine?

In Christ
OL

[Joe Zollars]

as I am unaware to the particulars of monophysite theology, I cannot answer the last one as I am sure there is some way they twist their teachings to sound Orthodox.

However it is important to remember that they do not accept the seven Oecumenical Councils, and have been condemned by countless Saints time and time again. Until they repent of their heresy and are recieved back into the Orthodox Church, they will remain graceless and heretical.

One Christ-One Truth-One Church

IN Christ,
Nicholas Zollars

[Mor Ephrem]

Dear OL,

If you ask me, this is the last place you should seek out information regarding what Oriental Orthodox Christians believe (if you want to know what traditionalist EO Christians believe about us, this would be the place, but if you want to be honest, you should also be familiar with our POV). I would recommend OrthodoxChristianity.net, but I'm sure some of the people here would have a problem with that recommendation, so I won't (besides, I think you've raised this issue there before).

What I will recommend is that you talk to your local Coptic/Syriac/Armenian/Ethiopian/Eritrean/Indian Orthodox clergy, and pick up some books. One that comes to mind, specifically with regard to the Council of Chalcedon in 451 is Father V.C. Samuel's The Council of Chalcedon Re-examined. Since you only have a limited amount of time before you go off to the Marines, you may not get to do all of this, or do it satisfactorily, but that's OK. If you are really interested, do what you can.

You are, of course, free to reject what these sources and others you may examine teach, but it would be good to do so with an accurate knowledge of what we actually believe and what EO Christians actually believe rather than basing your rejection on what I'd call "hearsay". It's a complicated issue, and should not be dealt with simplistically, as is the wont of some armchair theologians and those belonging to certain traditionalist "Churches".

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Mor Ephrem,

Shouldn't the title of that book be "The Council of Chalcedon Re-interpreted"?

I would be much more inclined to agree with your position if even one reply to the many points raised here was offered. But nothing of the sort. You can scan through the many threads dealing with this issue and see that there have not been any contrary remarks.

But let's not dwell on the past, you can now show everyone how your position significantly differs from that of the Monothelites.

.

[Mor Ephrem]

Dear OOD,

I hope you are having a blessed Epiphany season!

Right now, I feel like I'm in the beginning stages of my second flu or something, so I'm going to try to keep my response short.

It is increasingly frustrating for me to deal with the EO/OO issue on this particular forum for a number of reasons.

First, I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable regarding the issue, but definitely not an expert, and to my knowledge I am the only Oriental Orthodox Christian on this board. When there are a few of you that are knowledgeable regarding your own Church's position, and many more (or so it seems) who enjoy "railing", I find it difficult to post after a while--I just don't know as much as the intelligent among you do, and the others just incite sinful tendencies within me (e.g., lack of charity), and so my ability to defend my Church and her beliefs is limited, particularly when I'm the only one around to do so.

Second, while this is certainly a great place to discuss traditionalist Eastern Orthodox and their issues, if you will allow me my opinion as an Oriental Orthodox Christian, this is not a good place to discuss the differences between EO and OO. I've encountered at least one poster in the past who, when I invited them to show me from Oriental Orthodox sources (Fathers,Liturgy, scholarly works, etc.) the error of our way, basically said that until we were willing to repent, there would be no such discussion. Well, if one is not even willing to honestly inform himself of the actual reality of the other side, how can I convince the individual to do so? I can only recommend certain things, and that is all. No one on this site has demonstrated to me that they have even a beginner's grasp of what we teach, but only an accurate grasp of a misconception (not that I'm a great expert on Chalcedonian Christianity, but I think I have an accurate grasp of the EO position). No one to my knowledge has demonstrated from our own texts why we are heretics (an endeavour I would welcome because it demonstrates honest inquiry). The people on this site, by and large, do not seem to be interested in actually learning about my Church on its own terms, and then registering their honest disagreements based on that understanding, but rather on proclaiming how right you are and how wrong everyone else is. This impression is only bolstered by a thread I believe you started recently, OOD, regarding "The Monophysites" in which you wrote in the first line words to the effect of "We haven't had a good Monophysite discussion in a while." This attitude, prevalent on this forum, prevents me after a while from posting charitably. Instead, I find that I get only angry at people, and then what kind of example am I? It is better for me to say little.

Third, I am not on this site as regularly as I used to be, and so do not see every thread. Those that I do see have been replied to, and resemble what I was talking about above, and so I figure it is better to leave it alone. Furthermore, because I don't consider myself as well read on our position as I'd like to be, and barring any of my smarter co-religionists who would on their own join this site, there's not much that I can do. Also, I'm busier now having graduated from university than I was there, and so simply do not have the time.

For these basic reasons, I hope you will understand any lack of participation or engaging the topic on my part. It is a blend of practical issues that are my own as well as my opinion regarding this site's general membership's handling of this particular topic.

Forgive me,

Philip

[Mor Ephrem]

Mor Ephrem,

Shouldn't the title of that book be "The Council of Chalcedon Re-interpreted"?

Just saw this edit. I suppose you would want to call it that.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Mor Ephrem,

I can certainly appreciate some of the concerns you've brought up, I have felt them in reverse on other forums.

I have always tried to be charitable, especially towards you, but I admit that I fail often. I see these issues as being a matter of salvation and because of this only charitable conversations show a genuine appreciation of this.

Where I wrote "We haven't had a good Monophysite discussion in a while", I sincerley intended a warm bit humor for everyone. If you took it a different way, well, that's the nature of humor and why its dangerous. I'm sorry.

In addition, I have always felt I have approached these issues in good faith and toward a genuine dialog; I can only offer this to you in the future as I cannot control anything else.

But until then, it cannot be said that anything was offered contrary to what I feel are very sound and traditional points of view of the Orthodox Church on this forum.