Fundamentalist????

CGW · Post by **CGW** » Thu 8 January 2004 2:56 pm

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:
People who wish these eyewitness accounts are "legend" and "rumor" are brainwashing themselves; and when I see this, I feel any resources of effort on my part to have a reasonable conversation completley pointless.

It's 2004 and the account made here is of someone else about a third person sixty years ago with every name filed off. For me, it is not an eyewitness account, if for no other reason than this woman has not spoken to me. But that's beside the point. It's 2004, and I'm pretty sure you are neither Greek nor eighty, and isn't it time you stopped bearing a grudge on this woman's behalf?

The whole point of these persecutions was brought up because someone theorized that traditional Orthodox Christians would resort to murder if they could. When it was pointed out that the modernist heretics were the ones cooperating with murder and persecution, which is so well documented that it is useless to have to explain, all we now hear is that the traditionalists should "forgive and forget", and they hold grudges.

And now you've gone beyond not forgiving and spread a sort of organizational bloodguilt around that can never be relieved. If we are going to condemn on this basis, then all are beyond hope-- and certainly any that insists on bearing such grudges. You do bear grudges, and not even on your own personal behalf.

With such shifty tactics, what point is there in carrying on with this thread?

What, because I am not moved? Your Lord commanded you to forgive; what more is there to say?

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Thu 8 January 2004 3:00 pm

CGW,

And who are you to say that I, and this poor old woman, by simply stating facts of history (and they are facts) have not forgiven them?

Or are you trying to whitewash this part of history by personally judging me and this woman as if you personally know that we are guilty of a sin? For someone not willing to subscribe to "rumors", you sure are willing to start your own when it is convenient.

You should be "moved"; moved to ask your Godless authorities why they have not repented for their part.

.

CGW · Post by **CGW** » Thu 8 January 2004 3:15 pm

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:
And who are you to say that I, and this poor old woman, by simply stating facts of history (and they are facts) have not forgiven them?

I can't speak for the woman, and I do not know whether they are facts or not. But what you say here bespeaks-- nay, bellows out a resolve not to forgive. If you believe that you have forgiven, then I would suggest that you may be deluding yourself.

Or are you trying to whitewash this part of history by personally judging me and this woman as if you personally know that we are guilty of a sin?

I do not have any discourse with the woman, so there is nothing I can do for her beyond prayer. But as for you, this very "question" would seem to proclaim that you aren't guilty of any sin, and that indeed you should continue to bear down on these points in this manner.

There are many who have injured me personally over the years, and yes, I would whitewash over this history because it is not edifying to forever dwell upon it. That would falsify forgiveness. The issue here isn't really whether these things happened, but whether they should be allowed to direct our actions in perpetuity.

Perhaps you should be "moved" and ask your Godless authorities why they have not repented for their part.

Well, being "Godless", it is hardly to expected that they place much value in repentance. And where is it written that forgiveness is predicated on repentance?

Makis · Post by **Makis** » Thu 8 January 2004 3:20 pm

Dear Mr. OOD,

I asked you before:

Who are this "they"?

Would you please be so kind to answer?

Thank you in advance!

In Christ,

Makis

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Thu 8 January 2004 3:38 pm

CGW,

If you are sincerley that confused between forgiveness and simply stating history, then I wonder if you can admit and tell anyone of the many other persecutions Christians have suffered over the centuries. Even Christ was persecuted by the Jews and yet we can discuss this without holding "grudges" against Jews can't we?

And it doesn't matter that you believe or disbelieve this story. There are many other well documented ones from this time which lend enough credibility in general as to make your disbelief on this one issue meaningless. But by your persistence, in light of the overwhelming witness of history from that time, you are simply demonstrating that you have shut out the light from your eyes and have stopped up your ears. How is it then that anyone can prove to a blind person that light exists?

And I don't care if you tell the world that I am guilty of the worst sins, because I am guilty of enough sins to deserve it. But only because I feel any conversation with you is useless, I will avoid dialog with you in the future. Please forgive me.

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Thu 8 January 2004 3:43 pm

Makis,

Who is "they"?

"They" are the police, the politicians, the military and all those cooperating and contributing in the persecutions.

I have not been to Greece enough to know, but aren't their any books available covering these persecutions? There are ones in English which describe the brutal details of many people and individual cases. Really sad that this happened.

CGW · Post by **CGW** » Thu 8 January 2004 3:50 pm

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:
CGW,

If you are sincerley that confused between forgiveness and simply stating history, then I wonder if you can admit and tell anyone of the many other persecutions Christians have suffered over the centuries. Even Christ was persecuted by the Jews and yet we can discuss this without holding "grudges" against Jews can't we?

Maybe you can, and maybe you can't. Most people who feel inclined to discuss this persecution can't, it seems to me; they bring up the issue out of malice against modern Jews. In any case, it seems to take a Lutheran to teach you what you should already know:

Code: Select all

Who was the guilty? Who was it denied Thee?
Alas, my treason, Jesus, hath undone Thee.
'Twas I, Lord Jesus, I it was denied Thee.
I crucified Thee.

And it doesn't matter that you believe or disbelieve this story. There are many other well documented ones from this time which lend enough credibility in general as to make your disbelief on this one issue meaningless.

Whether or not this is true is beside the point. Let the dead bury their dead; why is it so necessary to harp on the sins of years gone by?

But by your persistence, in light of the overwhelming witness of history from that time, you are simply demonstrating that you have shut out the light from your eyes and have stopped up your ears.

Well, if nothing else I am demonstrating that you recounting a vague tale of a nameless woman with nameless persecutors in a nameless place at a dateless time isn't good history! But again, that isn't the point! The point is, even if it is true, why can't you forgive it and go on?