ABOUT: TOC Greece

[PFC Nektarios]

What is the TOC Greece. Who are they. The only thing ive heard about them is that they are bigger then the State Church of Greece is this true?

In Christ
OL

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

OrthodoxLearner,

There are several groups who claim the title TOC (or GOC) of Greece. Because of translation difficulties, sometimes "True" is translated as "Genuine".

The "Florenite" Synod under Archbishop ChrysostomosII is the largest and the "Mathewites" under Archbishop Nicholasare fairly large too. Hopefully soon these two Synods will be uniting. Now I am not equating "large" with "truth", I am merely pointing out that these groups are the most commonly excepted.

My friend always says, "be right, be Mathewite."

The Cyprianites are not that large in Greece, but they are respected for there PR and good organization and praxis. But I must note, they are ecclesialastical heretics.

[Seraphim Reeves]

OOD,

I sincerely hope that the hope you entertain for the union of the Greek Old Calendarists will bear fruit soon. Just as I hope the differences between the ROAC and ROCiE can be ironed out. I have hope that once things like this occur, there will be little difficulty in both "the Russians" and "the Greeks" coming together. It is tragic that there are so many divisions, when (as you have rightly pointed out several times) all of these parties actually believe the same things. If the heresies of the ecumenists are the first thing none of us needs, the anti-canonical juristictionalism of the ecumenists (or anything resembling this) is a close second.

Seraphim

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Seraphim,

Yes, there is much to be said about this subject, and you will find there are people who have vested interests in deepening and magnifying these divisions.

God sees the essence of matters and not always the letter of the law. The economia of the Church exists for the one lost Sheep, where the 99 may have always followed correctly and according to exactness. If schismatics and those who have separated themselves from the Church should ever become humble, and repent (a matter for which we all ardently pray), the Church will not need to re-ordain them, just as often when, applying economia, she does not baptize heretics even though they have no true baptism. The Church of Christ, which is wherever the Orthodox Faith and Confession is, and not where the most mitres are or where one can see the purest logic, has the power, even without external forms and rites, to restore the grace of the priesthood that was lost as soon as the sickness, which repulsed grace, is cured.

There are different medicines for different illnesses.

And there are also, and I hate to use the word, pharisaical approaches to issues. For instance, many people charge that Bishop Mathew uncanonically ordained his Bishops. They say, “What further need have we of witnesses?” (Matt. 26:65); the consecration of a bishop by one bishop is uncanonical!”. To which the Church answers: “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithes of mint and anise and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith...ye blind guides, which strain out the gnat, and swallow a camel!” (Matt. 23:23—24).

By using the same method and by applying exactness, one can prove that all bishops everywhere are uncanonical. And it is usually these people who have themselves often violated both the Faith and the canons, and are the last who have the right to speak about the violation of the canons.

Each situation is certainly different and sometimes very difficult to assertain; and clearly, the added ingredient of heresy changes a great deal about everything said.

[John the Russian]

Seraphim wrote:

I sincerely hope that the hope you entertain for the union of the Greek Old Calendarists will bear fruit soon. Just as I hope the differences between the ROAC and ROCiE can be ironed out. I have hope that once things like this occur, there will be little difficulty in both "the Russians" and "the Greeks" coming together. It is tragic that there are so many divisions, when (as you have rightly pointed out several times) all of these parties actually believe the same things. If the heresies of the ecumenists are the first thing none of us needs, the anti-canonical juristictionalism of the ecumenists (or anything resembling this) is a close second.

Itoo hope that ROAC and ROCIE will work things out soon.I am sure that there are some old calander Greeks that would fit right in with us also. We must stand united against the heresye of ecumenism.

[mwoerl]

i am not trying to imply that "numbers+truth," either, but i do not think that ALL of the various TOC Churches together add up to the number of those in the State Church of Greece . . .

mwoerl

[Savva24]

i am not trying to imply that "numbers+truth," either, but i do not think that ALL of the various TOC Churches together add up to the number of those in the State Church of Greece . . .

mwoerl

Or even a fraction of it I would think.