The OCA

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Nevski,

I'm not sure if my old OCA priest would commune a Monophysite, he has never had the opportunity to my knowledge. I know for sure he beleives they are the lost and "misunderstood" branch of the Church. But I know St. Nicholas's and St. Constantine and Helens in Oak Lawn, IL and Palos Hill, IL have done it. Long-short, yes, I think it is a free-for-all but certainly not a policy. Having said that, I believe the OCA considers Monophysites to be members of the church and have a real priesthood, do you agree Nevski?

You gave nothing of the sort. Rather, you provided evidence of how Antioch is in communion (actually, more of a quasi-communion) with the Non-Chalcedonian Church of Syria.

If the OCA communed the Orientals, then the Amenian lady and the Jacobites who attend our OCA parish on a regular basis could receive communion there. They cannot, because the OCA does not commune the non-Chalcedonians, nor does it permit its members to commune in their churches.

I don't believe I said the OCA communed them, I said they are in communion with them, which was illustrated well enough. Of course I also believe they commune them but I haven't made that charge since I know people will be asking for photos of people receiving communing with big signs on their back saying "I am a Monophysite".

Reader Chyrsostomos,

1. Why is it, that those with whom you have a different opinion with, such as myself, about the OCA, will label individuals like us as "those with a sandbox mentality". What justification, do you put forth to warrant demeaning others with such terminology. Do you feel a compelling need to put yourself above all others here on the board? Whatever happened to humility, being humble. Frankly I would think that you and others on this board, who, let's say for simplicity sake, are correct in every issue, and we (of sandbox mentality) are wrong on every issue, would be able to relay info to us, but not in a demeaning, belittling way. I would believe that it is best to lead by example. That is what I am attempting to do, is be a "Living Icon" of Christ, but of course we are asking ourselves to be honest, and honestly I am a sinful failure in this regards.

Thank you for pointing this out. While I didn't mean to offend you, I obviously have so I ask your forgiveness.

2. Is the OCA "graceless"? Are those in the OCA, myself, my family,
going to hell, because we partake communion in an OCA Church, and are attending a New Calendar Church. I ask you to not mince words, be forthright in your response. As I have mentioned in previous messages, I am theologically "Traditional". I just happen to be trying to take the advise of St. Seraphim of Sarov....may God help me to do as St. Seraphim instructs. Once again, do not mince words, come forth and say plainly if we are doomed for hell if we remain in the OCA.

I could would never say someone is "doomed to hell", and I think we may have a different outlook on what "hell" is (but, please, let's save that for another conversation ) I will say that unless you have been baptized in the Church of Christ you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And I do beleive with all my heart that the OCA is not the Church of Christ and cannot therefore administer the Mysteries of the Church. It is painful to say this to someone but even more fearful not to. And this is also knowing that most of my family is OCA or GOA.

3. I ask you to answer the question that I posed Bogatyr about the Old Believers and Patriarch Nikon. You are very knowledgeable, there is no doubt in this, please respond. I would really like to hear your input on that question.

I apologize, I have not read that particular thread but when I do I'll respond.

Chysostomos, I realize that I am not always the most charitable in tone and flavor. Lord knows I try. And no doubt these are very difficult and disturbing discussions. Please extend the benefit of the doubt to me that I am being sincere and not just trying to be "better" than you.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Crysostomos,

Which thread was the "Old Believers and Patriarch Nikon" issue on?

[Seraphim Reeves]

There's an old saying...

"If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, etc... it's a duck."

This is the situation of the Antiochians and the Monophysites - it is all but called "communion." Yet if you look at the list of official statements which exist between the two, it is undoubtedly communion; the recognition of each other's validity, concelebrations, etc.

I just came across this today, and think it illustrates quite plainly what I mean. The last time I checked "canonical releases" can only be made between two Orthodox diocese'/Churches.

(the following is taken from the website of the "British Orthodox Church", a dependency of the Copts)

Reception of Father David Sennitt

With the permission of His Eminence Metropolitan Gabriel of the Antiochian Orthodox Diocese in Western and Central Europe, Father David Sennitt, a priest of the British Antiochian Orthodox Deanery, was granted a canonical release in order that he could be received into the British Orthodox Church. This took place at the hands of Abba Seraphim at Babingley on 9 February. Father David will serve alongside Father David Seeds at the Church at Cusworth, Doncaster.

Heresy is the spiritual equivelent of leprocy - hence why not only those who esposue it formally, but those who indulge and communicate with it, are cut off from the communion of the faithful.

Now (Nevski, and others of the same mind on these questions), is it not true that the OCA, GOA, whatever, are in communion with the Antiochians?

Seraphim

[Natasha]

"Maybe some of those Armenians and Copts converted to Orthodoxy after they attended an OCA church for a while and realized their heresy."

Nope, definately not the case. In the area I am referring to, the Copts have their Divine Liturgy service earlier than the OCA/GOA, so they attend the Coptic Church in the early am, then come to the other church around mid-service and stay for the rest of the service & coffee hour. Believe me, its not like I was going to church and making notes, but it was just not hard to notice when like 10 (+/-) women in long white robes would arrive late on a weekly basis.

[Natasha]

don't believe I said the OCA communed them, I said they are in communion with them, which was illustrated well enough. Of course I also believe they commune them but I haven't made that charge since I know people will be asking for photos of people receiving communing with big signs on their back saying "I am a Monophysite".

That was a well needed laugh for the day!

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Natasha,

You should come to a Greek Church where 50+ people arrive late ..........

[Natasha]

An old Greek Priest once told me a story that every week in his church the same woman would come late and make a great show of lighting her candles and venerating the icons. She was very wealthy and wore a lot of gold jewelry so she would be even more eye-catching. So finally, one Sunday this Priest had enough and he shouted to her, "Don't worry, God will still see you no matter how shiny you are!"
After that, it was no longer a problem!