The OCA

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OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Nevski,

How about an official document issued by the Patriarchate of Antioch? This document alone is a denial of the Holy Orthodox Church by their synod of ecumenists and far more than is needed to reasonably illustrate this point of fact.

And this document outlines the practice witnessed by members of this forum who have since fled the Antiochians.


To All Our Children,
Protected By God,
Both Clergy and Laity of
The Holy See of Antioch

Beloved:

You must have heard of the continuous efforts for decades by our Apostolic See with the sister Orthodox Syriac Church to foster a better knowledge and understanding of both churches whether on the dogmatic or pastoral level. Those attempts are nothing but a natural expression that the Orthodox Churches, and especially those within the Holy See of Antioch, are called to articulate the will of the Lord that all may be one, just as the Son is One with the Heavenly Father.

It is our duty and that of our brothers in the Syriac Church to witness to Christ in our Eastern area where He was born, preached, suffered, was buried and rose from the dead, ascended into heaven, and sent down His Holy and Life-Giving Spirit upon His holy apostles.

All the meetings, the fellowship, the oral and written declarations meant that we belong to One Faith even though history had brought forward the phase of our division more than the aspects of our unity.

All this has called upon our Holy Synod of Antioch to initiate a quick desire for our Church in the See of Antioch, for a unity that preserves for each Church its original Eastern heritage whereby the one Antiochian Church benefits from its sister Church and profits from its rich traditions, literature and holy rituals.

Every endeavour and pursuit in the direction of coming together of the two Churches is based on the conviction that this orientation is from the Holy Spirit, and it will give the Eastern Orthodox image more brightness and elegance that has lacked for centuries before.

Therefore, the Holy Synod of Antioch saw fit to translate the brotherly approachment relationship between the two Churches, the Antiochian Orthodox and the Syriac Orthodox for the edification of their faithful wherever they happen to be.

The Holy Synod of Antioch has decided the following matters:

1) The complete and mutual respect between the two Churches for their rituals, spirituality, heritage and holy fathers; and the full protection of both the Antiochian and Syriac liturgical practices.

2) The incorporation of the fathers of both Churches and their heritage in general in the Christian education curriculum and theological teaching; and the exchange of theological professors and students.

3) The refraining from accepting members of one Church in the membership of the other whatever the reasons might be.

4) Organizing meetings of both Synods whenever need and necessity may arise.

5) Leaving every Church as a reference for its members in all matters pertaining to marriage, divorce, adoption etc.

6) If two bishops of the two different Churches meet for a spiritual service the one with the majority of the people will generally preside. But if the service is for the sacrament of holy matrimony the bishop of the bridegroom will preside.

7) Whatever has been previously mentioned does not apply to the concelebration among the bishops in the Divine Liturgy.

8) Whatever has been said in number six applies to the clergy of both Churches.

9) If one priest of either Church happens to be in a certain area he will serve the Divine Mysteries for the members of both Churches including the Divine Liturgy and the sacrament of holy matrimony. The same priest will keep an independent record for both Churches and transmit the registration of the members of the sister Church to its spiritual authority.

10) If two priests of both Churches happen to be in a certain community they will take turns, and in case they concelebrate the one with the majority of the people will preside.

11) If a bishop from one Church and a priest from the sister Church happen to concelebrate, presiding naturally belongs to the bishop even though being in the community of the priest on the condition that there are people of both Churches.

12) Ordinations into the Holy Orders are performed by the spiritual authorities on candidates in every respective Church prefereably in the presence of the brothers from the other sister Church.

13) Godfathers, Godmothers and witnesses in the sacrament of holy matrimony are allowed to be chosen from the members of both Churches without any discrimination.

14) In all mutual celebrations the first clergyman in ordination will preside over the ceremony.

15) All organizations from both Churches will co-operate in all matters whether educational, cultural and social for the enrichment of the brotherly spirit.

We promise you on this occasion to continue strengthening our relationship with the sister Church and all other Churches for all to become one community under one Shepherd.

Nevski
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Post by Nevski »

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:

Nevski,

How about an official document issued by the Patriarchate of Antioch?

Correct me if I'm wrong, OOD, but is this thread not entitled, "The OCA?" And did you not state the following in the post to which I responded?:

Now if you are going to forward the theory that the OCA is Orthodox, you must have a very good thesis on why the so-called "Oriental Orthodox" are indeed Orthodox, because you are in communion with them. And I would very much like to hear your treatise on the subject. (Emphasis mine.)

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Nevski,

Yes, this thread is titled "The OCA". And we have been talking about the OCA being in communion with the Monophysites. If you have a point, please make it.

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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

I think his point was that you were showing the Antiochians being in direct communion with Monophysites, not the OCA. Of course the OCA is in communion with the Antiochians, so one can call this indirect communion.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Nicholas,

I hope and pray people really think about this sandbox mentality.

In order to illustrate how dangerous a thought such as this is, could we say for a moment your neighbor contracted the EBOLA virus. Of course you are safe in your own house. Every now and then you look out your window and see an ambulance or some health workers visiting your neighbors.

Then one day, your neighbor rings your doorbell! You answer the door and not only do you have coffee together, but you share the same cup! Would it be a surprise to find out the next day you have EBOLA too?

I fail to understand how people can comprehend so easily the things which pertain to their personal health and worldly things such as this example, but fail completley to grasp the importance and magnitude of spiritual realities such as who they commune the Holy Cup with.

The Mystery of Holy Communion is the most profound expression of the unity of Orthodox Christians in His Mystical Body. If we take this and cherish this spiritual truth in our hearts, it means that we should not be satisfied with mere definitions, words about words; nor should we uncritically accept the fallen world's understanding of "unity" such as what appears adminstrative or physical, because the true inner meaning of Orthodox unity is God-oriented. Our true concept of unity is usurped when we think we are safe in our own sandboxes, and another fallen meaning is substituted in the place of the Eucharist. This discussion must be grounded in the spiritual reality to which the word unity points and of which the Eucharist is not just a symbol, but a reality and the means.

"Even if one should give away all his possessions in the world, and yet be in communion with heresy, he cannot be a friend of God, but is rather an enemy" - St. Theodore the Studite

And I would like to make one last point. If your neighbor came to the door and a health care worker backed up by ambulances and quarantine suites said, "don't open the door, this person has Ebola!". You certainly would not reply, "until you prove it to me with a powerpoint presentation I will continue sharing coffee with my neighbor." No. You wouldn't because you understand the importance and care about your health.

Nevski
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Post by Nevski »

Nicholas wrote:

I think his point was that you were showing the Antiochians being in direct communion with Monophysites, not the OCA. Of course the OCA is in communion with the Antiochians, so one can call this indirect communion.

Sort of like how ROCOR is in communion with "world Orthodoxy" through Serbia?

Nevski
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Post by Nevski »

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:

Nicholas,

I hope and pray people really think about this sandbox mentality. (Snip)

Nice rhetoric, but are you now prepared to retract your assertion that the OCA is in communion with the Oriental Orthodox?

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