Hurrah!!! GEORGIAN CHURCH DEFEATS vatican CONCORDAT!!!

[mwoerl]

i find it interesting the way you suggest what i have said, when that is nbot really what i have said at all. i would not welcome a papal concordat, nor did i suggest it was "the people's will." there is always this fear that "foreign missions" will "buy souls." i doubt that these "foreign missions" have that much money to spread around to buy souls-its kinda tough everywhere now, aint it? also-if someone is willing to "sell their soul"-this is your indigenous pious orthodox christian? i dont think so.

yes, i am also aware that some countries follow a "different social construct." it is called "being afraid of freedom." the moslem dominated countries are inhabited by a lot of imams who would make exactly the same argument that you are making. is the orthodox church so insecure in russia and georgia that it thinks everybody will simply leave them and go off to "rome" or the jehovah's witnesses if they cannot forcibly keep these people out? if so, that is a very sad commentary.

the mp mission in italy was closed due to an agreement-you stay out of russia, we will stay out of italy, instigated largely from the mp side i would think. i doubt very much that the vatican feared hordes of their loyal followers would rush off to embrace the russian orthodoxy of the moscow patriarchate and subsequently felt the necessity to "shut down" the mp before it was too late! also, the blame for the ecumenical madness of the mp and the ep cannot be laid at the feet of rome.

i am quite aware of what rome is, and quite aware of what the unia is. the "classical" unia is orthodox people being forced to submit to the pope under threats of death or physical harm. i also never said, or even suggested, that rome is "enlightened."

i do not know about georgia in the follwoing consideration-but-the mp has not shied away from accepting money from rome-at one point (i do not know if this is still going on) roman catholics were "adopting" parishes in russia, and paying the salary of the priests! while i am not stupid enough to believe this was simply an honest charitable effort on the part of rome, i do not believe it was a wise or totally honest effort on the part of the mp to have their hand out to accept the money.

i thought russia and georgia had seen enough of totalitarian regimes. limiting religious activity is one of the hallmarks of totalitarian regimes. it is ugly. it is an ugliness that no orthodox church should be involved in.

mwoerl

[Bogatyr]

Again, the point missed, is that if you wish to live in Orthodox Georgia and apostasize to joseph smith mormonism or islam or unia, you may. There is no "totalitarianism". This is a non-secular and Orthodox society; hence, its people place Orthodoxy in prominence much like the Byzantine Empire or pre-revolutionary Russia. They are endeavouring to recreate what the communists have torn down and the Church is leading the people to resist the intrusion of foreign missionaries and their money. That is not totalitarianism. After all, the GEORGIAN GOVERNMENT agreed to the concordat with rome and the GEORGIAN PEOPLE AND THEIR CHURCH brought it down. The will of the people is democracy. Their is freedom of conscience in Georgia, but not freedom of foreign proselytism and that is acceptible, especially after a culture and people have been coercively secularized over the course of 80 years. Let the Church reconstruct itself and we'll how willing the sectarians are in trying to establish a foothold here or a convert there. LOL!
The mp has been selling out for decades, and I concur that something must be done about it. They live in largesse and betray Orthodoxy while the simple believers live in poverty and watch their parents, grand parents die off of exposure. The pigs with their maffia associations do not a lift a finger for social justice. There is no pechalovanija in today's sergianist mp.
The mp when it pulled out of italy did so at nikodim's behest and his compromise of Orthodoxy. It had nothing to do with fear of latin proselytism as the latins had no chance of entering the ussr. It was latin money and latin political games with communist officials that brought that mission to a close. The sectarians, among whom I include the latins, have plenty of money, and in places where there is a lower standard of living like Georgia, they can purchase a hungry family easy with a simple care packet. I recall in Jordanville how the only new immigration settled around the area was "Russsian pentecostals" who attend Orthodox Paschal church services, use three-bar crosses and call their church "tserkov'", Russian for an Orthodox church. They didn't become pentecostals out of conviction but rather for material reasons and the promise of a "persecution visa" where they came to America and now live on the backs of the tax payers. It was called "white paternalism" during the colonial era, and, indeed, foreigners wish to get into countries much like the bin ladins of the world and "convert the ignorant and sovietized Orthodox" to their particular sect. Theire "sword of allah" is a care packet and their great "jihad" is western culture intruding with its anachronistic mores as you've illustrated.
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky

[mwoerl]

my last . . . then possibly the governments and churches of these regions should be more concerned with feeding their own people! and finding a way to do it without an outstretched hand to the "west" they pretend to so despise. "western culture" is an abomination to be sure, unless its "ambassador" has an engraving of benjamin franklin on it!

mwoerl

[Bogatyr]

Sadly true, but here the attempt is made to draw a distance with the west.
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky