Looks like ROCOR priest concelebrated with EP and MP priests

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Seraphim,

key idea in the anathema, it would seem to me, was the condemnation of a false ecclessiology - one which says that it's possible to confess falsehood, to seperate one's self from right believing brethren (or persist in such a separation), and yet somehow still be "the Church." This would seem to be the problem with the "Cyprian" ecclessiology ROCOR officially accepted when it united with the TOC Greek Old Calendarists - the idea of "holy heretics"

I think the Cyprianite ecclesiology is tenable when it's a schism we are talking about. For the calendar issue, for instance, I think Cyprianitism is very possibly valid. Schismatics are, after all, considered somehow to be a part of the Church even after they lose the grace of God (in their mysteries and lives)... at least until they continue walking down a further path and essentially leave God behind. I guess the hard part for me, at this point, is that we seemed to be well past that "only schism" point when they came into communion with Cyprian. We had already had the Balamands and acceptance of monophysites, and numerous other things. Surely the (ROCOR) bishops know of these things... so why do they not say anything? They were very rash (they admitted so themselves) in sending out documents in 2000 that were positively toned (ie. leaning towards unity); why are they holding back in sending out words that will help protect the flock? Certainly when even the very bishops we are in communion with (and seek to meet in council with) call us schismatics and worthy of every condemnation, we do not fear "hurting the peace process" or some such thing. So why the wait?

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Seraphim Reeves
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Sounds like hand washing :(

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

But it really doesn't appear as if that's happened since Met.Vitaly seems to have made the character of the anathema pretty clear-

We, de facto, do not serve with either new-calendarists or ecumenists, but if someone of our clergy, by economy, would presume to such a concelebration, this fact alone in no way influences our standing in the truth."

Whether one agrees with this line of reasoning in regards to the character of an anathema or not is another story all-together. But it seems the real "position" of ROCOR is to allow these concelebrations for the sake of economy. One can agree or disagree with whether that makes sense, but one shouldn't state that the ROCOR has changed course, vandalized the lighthouse, etc. etc.

Well, frankly, it doesn't make any sense at all.

i) ROCOR's tolerance of "this bishop can do this, this one can do that" is incomprehensible, since as a Synod, they can quite plainly say who can, and cannot be communed or concelebrated with, and outright who, and who is not in communion with their Synod - and that would be binding upon all of the Bishops involved, as their common understanding, and obviously that would filter down to the parish and monastic communities. To simply hold their hands up as if they're helpless in this regard makes no sense. If ROCOR is officially in communion with Jerusalem (for example), then no one Bishop should have the right (while professing to be of one mind with his Synod) to say to his clergy and faithful that they can have no involvement with the JP, or profess himself to not be in communion with them. At best, this is simply ecclessiastical anarchy - at worst, it's simply hand wringing.

ii) the comment you posted is ambiguous - it's unclear whether the Synod "officially" even thinks these priests have even done anything wrong. This has all the appearances of paying lip service to the anathema against ecumenism. It almost seems to me, that the current powers that be in ROCOR secretly wish Bl.Metropolitan Philaret and those around him had never issued this anathema at all - a dirty little problem, left over from a past age, that they hope will be forgotten?

In short, it seems to me that the anathema is being treated as dead letters.

Seraphim

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Each bishop can decide as he wants who he will and will not be in communion with, even if their is a semi-official prevailing stance among the majority of bishops in the local Church. Sounds perfectly Orthodox to me.

And... you are right when you say that some people wish the Anathema had never been issued. Some don't agree with the anathema and think it was a mistake of the synod. Some agree with the "spirit" of it but think it caused more confusion and division than it healed (if the intention was to maintain unity, it failed miserably).

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Now, when I make that first statement, I'm of course assuming that if a bishop goes way out of line and, let's say, concelebrates with monophysites, that he would be deposed (or at the very least tried). A bishop has the right to have communion with who he wants, but he will always be watched by his fellow bishops.

bogoliubtsy
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Re: Sounds like hand washing :(

Post by bogoliubtsy »

seraphim reeves wrote:

It almost seems to me, that the current powers that be in ROCOR secretly wish Bl.Metropolitan Philaret and those around him had never issued this anathema at all - a dirty little problem, left over from a past age, that they hope will be forgotten?

From speaking with ROCOR clergy who were present during the writing of the anathema, the character of the anathema becomes very clear.

From speaking with ROCOR clergy who know the history and ultimate purpose of ROCOR, the anathema becomes even clearer.

After gaining an understanding that ROCOR has always been in official communion with Serbia (and Jerusalem) and has only De Facto been out of communion with "world Orthodoxy" (as is evidenced by the GOA's own acceptance of ROCOR as legit even in the 1960's)....things become even clearer still.

Also, in helping to clarify the anathema is the context of the tone, history, and raison d'etre of ROCOR from the beginning. I think we shouldn't forget that Archbishop Vitaly Maximenko commemorated Patriarch Sergius in the 1940's simply out of obedience to the concept of Church order...or when St. John was doing the same thing in Shanghai for a time.
What I don't quite understand about the people who left ROCOR and now attck it is this: Why did you join the first place? Did you not know the history of these commemorations? Were these commemorations and concelebrations alright in the past, but not today when Russia is free?
If a ROCOR bishop were to mention Patriarch Alexei II during the liturgy, what kind of uproar would that cause today?
Were you not aware of this clarification of the anathema by Met. Vitaly, not so long after it was composed?

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Peter,

Not that I am doubting your sincerity, but where can I find a source which says Archbishop Vitaly Maximenko commemorated Patriarch Sergius in the 1940's "simply out of obedience" or when St. John of Shanghai did the same?

I mean I can say with some degree of certaintly that the Pope is commemorated in the Constantinoplian Diptychs today, but I woud be asked to show proof, so I say nothing.

And that it not to say you cannot show "proof", perhaps you can, I would just like to know your sources on this, especially St. John.

bogoliubtsy
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Post by bogoliubtsy »

Fr. Alexander Lebedeff's Comments on the Implications of the 1983 Anathema

When considering the approach to be used with regard to the current state of World Orthodoxy, we must remember that the situation with ecumenical heresy is much less clear than it was with the ancient heresies. If the ancient Church could apply Economy to those who had been misled by Arian and Nestorian heretics, whose heresies had been denounced by Ecumenical Councils, how much more do we have to apply Economy to those whose leaders have become entangled in heresy of Ecumenism, when this heresy has not yet settled into the minds of the majority of the faithful, and has been denounced not by an Ecumenical Council, but only by the Synod of Bishops itself?

Let us look once more at the Anathema of 1983, which is being used as the cornerstone of the attacks against the Synod. Here it is:

"Those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that Christ's Church is divided into so-called 'branches' which differ in doctrine and way of life, or that the Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in the future when all 'branches' or sects or denominations and even religions will be united into one body; who do not distinguish the priesthood and mysteries of the Church from those of the heretics, but say that the baptism and eucharist of the heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore, to those who knowingly have communion with these aforementioned heretics or who advocate, disseminate, or defend their new heresy of Ecumenism under the pretext of brotherly love or the supposed unification of separated Christians, Anathema!"

… But are the Serbian and Jerusalem Patriarchates not excommunicated by the 1983 anathema because of their participation in the ecumenical movement?

The answer must be an unequivocal no.

An excellent analysis of why this is so was written by John Hudanish, starosta of Our Lady of Kursk Chapel in Woodburn, Oregon…. After restating the text of the 1983 Anathema, John Hudanish writes:

"This is an eloquent condemnation of ecumenism and a clear statement of our Synod s rejection of it. What s not so clear, however, is the fact that this anathema is legislative in nature, rather than judicial, i.e., it is a codification of a theological principle into law, but not a verdict—much less a sentence. In other words, it identifies a specific phenomenon (ecumenism) as a heresy, and prescribes the penalty (Anathema!) for those who embrace and defend it, or "knowingly have communion" with those who do*, but it excommunicates no one! It is legislation. It is not judgment. And this is borne out by Metropolitan Vitaly in an article he wrote for "Orthodox Life" (No. 4, 1984, p. 32) while he was still Archbishop of Montreal and Canada. He wrote:

"Time will tell whether or not the other local Churches will adopt our resolution on ecumenism as the acts of the Ten Local Councils were, in their time, entered into the Books of the Canons of the Holy Apostles, the Sacred Ecumenical Councils and the Holy Fathers of the Universal Church."

"It is important to understand that since the 1983 anathema was promulgated by our Synod of Bishops, we now have a canonical basis for dealing with ecumenism and its adherents within our midst. But as with all other laws, the penalty prescribed by the 1983 anathema cannot be meted out to anyone without due process. Stated otherwise, before anyone can be excommunicated, there must be a determination of guilt in a canonical trial or synodical investigation….

"Therefore, strictly speaking, neither the Patriarch of Constantinople nor the Patriarch of Jerusalem has been excommunicated by the anathema of 1983... Furthermore, the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad has not subsequently convened to investigate allegations against either patriarch, nor to anathematize them under the 1983 resolution.

"Why not?! Why hasn't the Synod excommunicated the Patriarchs of Constantinople and Jerusalem for their transgressions? Well, for one thing, it's a matter of jurisdiction. As Metropolitan Vitaly had written in the aforementioned article:

"The anathema we have proclaimed is de jure a manifestation of a purely local character of the Russian Church Abroad…."

"No Orthodox body outside the Russian Church Abroad is bound by it, just as the anathema against the three-fingered sign of the cross proclaimed by the Council of the One Hundred Chapters (Moscow 1552) was not binding on the Greeks at that time. About all our Russian Church Abroad can do is to refrain from concelebrating with or admitting to the Holy Mysteries the clergy and laity of those Orthodox jurisdictions which appear to be involved in the ecumenist heresy. Our bishops have no authority to discipline any but their own." (pp. 8-9)

Metropolitan Vitaly confirmed this as the official view of the Church on the 1983 Anathema in his recent Nativity Epistle. In it he also clearly stated that those individual Synod clergymen who, in isolated incidents, have concelebrated with clergy of ecumenist or new calendar jurisdictions have done so by economy. In this Epistle, Metropolitan Vitaly wrote:

"We proclaimed an anathema against ecumenism only for the children of our Church, but by this we very humbly but firmly, gently but decisively, as if invite the local churches to stop and think. This is the role of our most small, humble, half-persecuted, always alert, but true Church. We, de facto, do not serve with either new-calendarists or ecumenists, but if someone of our clergy, by economy, would presume to such a concelebration, this fact alone in no way influences our standing in the truth." (emphasis added)

…[T]he Anathema of 1983 did not excommunicate everyone in world Orthodoxy.

The Synod of Bishops is not an Ecumenical Council, whose decrees would be binding on all Orthodox Churches. Its decisions apply only to the members of the Synod itself.

It is impossible to determine exactly how many Orthodox Christians there are in the world today, because a majority of them are under Communist oppression, and no accurate figures are available. But assuming that reports in the Soviet press are correct, about half of the population of the Soviet Union is baptized. On this basis, one could assume that there are somewhere in the area of 200 million Orthodox Christians in the world today.

If one were to believe [certain extremists] one would get the impression that on one day in 1983, some 200 million Orthodox were excommunicated and declared heretics by the action of the Synod's proclamation of the anathema against ecumenism.

One moment they are Orthodox, then—poof!—heretics.

This is nonsense.

The Orthodox Church has always understood that heresy takes centuries to become entrenched in the minds of the faithful, and that in the meantime, the overwhelming majority of the individual believers in a Church do not even know about, much less understand, the questions that are being disputed.

In order to be proclaimed a heretic, a person must consciously accept the heresy and believe in it wholeheartedly, and he must reject all attempts to persuade him to return to the true faith.

The overwhelming majority of the faithful in any of these local churches has never even heard of Ecumenism. How can they be heretics?

I can guarantee that of the 200 million Orthodox in the world today, only several thousand, if that, have ever even heard of the Synod's anathema of 1983. Even more than that, I can guarantee that the overwhelming majority of the members of the Synod church itself have never heard of this Anathema. I am confident that we have many members of the Synod clergy who never heard of it.

How then can we even think of sentencing to excommunication say the entire Serbian Orthodox church with all its faithful, or any other local Orthodox Church, no matter how wrong their leaders are in tolerating ecumenical activity? …

The Synod recognizes the fact that even in the new-calendar jurisdictions there are only a handful of fervent ecumenists—the type who would advocate the "branch theory" or who would encourage receiving sacraments from the non-Orthodox.

Although the Synod deplores all ecumenical activity, and in its publications openly criticizes those who participate in such activities, at the same time the Synod is very cognizant of the fact that there are many among the clergy and laymen of the other jurisdictions (especially in the Serbian Church), who are openly opposed to ecumenism, and who are working to turn the direction of their Churches to be more consistently Orthodox.

Because of this, the Synod is proceeding very carefully and deliberately on this issue. In the beginning, at the time the Synod was organized, the Synod freely concelebrated with all Orthodox jurisdictions. As time passed, and the Synod watched the Eastern Patriarchates being gradually being swept up by modernism and the new calendar, the Synod gradually began to withdraw from these concelebrations, while continuing to call upon these Churches to return to Orthodox strictness. Later, as these Churches lost their discernment to the point that they recognized the Moscow Patriarchate as being the valid Church of Russia, and as the infection of Ecumenism began to spread into these Churches, the Synod withdrew almost completely from any concelebration with them.

The Synod fervently hopes that the leaders of these Churches will recognize their errors, and that they will take steps to correct them. The Synod will continue to call upon these leaders and inspire them to change their direction.

In the meantime, the Synod continues to advocate a measured approach, with each bishop given the responsibility to determine exactly how the clergy of his individual diocese should proceed.

  • Actually, on this point John Hudanish errs. If one reads the anathema carefully, one will see that the words 'aforementioned heretics' do not mean the objects of the Anathema. i e. the ecumenists. These words refer to the heretics mentioned in the first phrases of the anathema. i.e. the heretics previously identified by the Church, such as Roman Catholics, Protestants, etc. The Anathema therefore denounces those who would have communion with Roman Catholics, for example.

This excerpt originally appeared in Orthodox Life, Vol. 37, No. 2, March-April 1987, pp. 12-17.

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