We should become peasants.

[Joe Zollars]

Thanks. Looks like option 3 shouldn't be in Owasso then. I thought land prices would be more expensive there.

I'm still rooting for SEK.

Joe Zollars

[Joseph]

Thanks. Looks like option 3 shouldn't be in Owasso then. I thought land prices would be more expensive there.

I'm still rooting for SEK.

Joe Zollars

I am just happy to have an English liturgy to attend. St. James parish in Owasso, while it is not a monastery, is nevertheless out of the way of any big city hubub. As a suburb, however, the once little town of Owasso will likely be booming in the next ten years: shopping malls, car lots, and dream homes with tiny yards. But urban sprawl effects everyone; perhaps the parish will grow too!

--Joseph

[Joe Zollars]

But urban sprawl effects everyone; perhaps the parish will grow too!

--Joseph

I hope it does grow. It's such a wonderfully holy place. It's an absolutly amazing parish. And like I said, Fr. Mark is among the holiest people I've ever met.

Joe Zollars

[Joseph]

For option nubmer 2, this area, SEK, is 1 1/2 hours from Owasso, 2 hours from Tulsa. There is no Traditional Orthodox presence in Kansas* so it would be a great way to be a missionary community. The land is great for farming, mild winters, milder summers than OK, etc. Also the land is much cheaper here.

If option 3 is utilized I would suggest using the area around Owasso. They have a small mission there (and another parish in OKC) and it is beutiful country. Although I don't know how fertile the land is, Father Mark's family sure seems able to grow an abundance of flowers. Father Mark is among the holiest Priests I have ever met, ok he is the only Priest I have ever met in person, but he is still a very holy man. Owasso is aproximatly 1/2 an hour away from Tulsa and there are also several other towns in the area. I don't know what land prices are down there, probably VERY expensive, after all Garth Brooks does live in Owasso.

Joe Zollars

My grandfather farmed some and ranched a little more on a section of land about fifteen miles northeast of Owasso. The soil grows wheat pretty well but fescue and other hay grasses better -- a means to beef. Larger scale operations in Oklahoma include those growing beens, sod, and some vegetables, and there are also some tree farms. Fruits require a great deal of extra attention and even then they may not turn out well.

[Julianna]

And of course, before we start making any serious plans (before we go beyond talk and into actual action) we need to get the bishop's blessing (the bishop of the place we will be living in, I assume).

If you can't get a bishop's blessing's or a priest I know a synod you could get it from a synod that has experience starting up a church from nothingness :mrgreen:

[Nektarios14]

If you can't get a bishop's blessing's or a priest I know a synod you could get it from a synod that has experience starting up a church from nothingness

Gotta love the protestan...er, um ROAC spirit of starting up a new church when your current one doesn't work.

[JohnMarq]

I cast my vote for #2.
I'm not sure though, that I'm fully in-line with one of the differences between #2 and #3, namely the secular job issue. Even with #1, I've known a number of Amish who, while they certainly didn't call it ideal, held secular jobs. But as far as the limited use of "conveniences", the non-use of things that are strictly entertainment, and at least a striving for self-sufficiency, I'm solidly with #2.

Before Orthodoxy. my family and I spent a number of years with a very conservative Anabaptist group and I held a job as a furniture-maker in an Old Order Amish workshop. So basically I left my #2 household every dayand spent 10 hours at a #1 job. I saw a lot of benefits in #1, but I also saw how my co-workers chafed a bit under their church's restrictions.

Our above situation however, was not a communal one, and I like the idea of mixing what we had before (and in many ways miss dreadfully) with a slightly more communal setting. We had some Hutterite/Bruderhoffer friends and are aware of some of the pitfalls there, but the idea still attracts. Especially in the business and schooling of children areas.

I look forward to seeing how the discussion develops!

As far as location goes, my vote would be for the moderator's homestate of PA. While we lived in Lancaster previously, and the land prices there are too high now, I think the mix between a good long growing season and, (for ROCOR) close proximity to a good number of churches and priests, make middle-to-Eastern PA ideal. The growing season here in NY is way too short, unless dairy farming is an option.

P.S. Paradosis: any plans to add the the Epistemolgy section of your website soon?