GOA now tonsuring women as clergy?

[Jean-Serge]

The question is...with this difference, you pointed out, were and are all the people who went to confession, not absolved of sins, by God because of the wording?

Joanna

In a precedent and old post, I criticized some western elements in Russian orthodoxy : singing, asking the fiancés if they are willing to marry and this word for the confession... I also blame some people for being no traditionnalist but simply conservative... I think this is very widespread in ROCOR-L, ROCOR-V, but I do not know ROAC... Many people want to imitate 18th century Russian orthodoxy beacuse they regard it as a Golden age whereas it has also bad elements...

I hope this will be corrected as soon as possible... But of course, dounting about the reality of the mysteris is excessive. For instance, if the priest makes a mistake during the baptism, it is nevertheless a baptism. In this case, it is also a mistake or ignorance...

[George Australia]

The question is...with this difference, you pointed out, were and are all the people who went to confession, not absolved of sins, by God because of the wording?

Why is this "the question"?
Shouldn't "the question" actually be: "Why is a latin innovation which changes the dogmatic teaching of the priesthood in the Orthodox Church considered "acceptable" (specifically, the dogma about Orthodox priests being unable to forgive sins being changed to say that they can forgive sins), when things like the New Calendar which don't change any Orthodox dogmatic teaching are labled as "heresy" for which people are prepared to schism the Church? Why the double standard? And isn't this straining the gnat to swallow the camel?

[George Australia]

In this case, it is also a mistake or ignorance...

....that has gone on for over two centuries?
Is the Russian Church really that ignorant? According to the Greek Old Calendarists, the Church of Greece lost Sacramental Grace after only 23 years in a "heresy" which doesn't involve dogma (ie, changing the calendar). Yet here we have the Russian Church in a heresy which in fact does effect dogma, for over 200 years....Surely the Russian Church has lost Sacramental Grace after spending two centuries in heresy?
Or have have in fact, neither the Russian Church, the Church of Greece, nor "World Orthodoxy" lost Grace, and therefore, those who schism from them have cut themselves off from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church?
Denial is the greatest proof that the conscience is troubled. Rather than answer simple questions like "Is it heresy to say that priests can forgive sins", those who live in denial will try to hurt the inquirer, the way a wounded animal lashes out even when you try to help it. It is the nature of a wounded animal to attack, whereas it is the nature of a human to show compassion and try to help.

[Jean-Serge]

In this case, it is also a mistake or ignorance...

....that has gone on for over two centuries?
Is the Russian Church really that ignorant? According to the Greek Old Calendarists, the Church of Greece lost Sacramental Grace after only 23 years in a "heresy" which doesn't involve dogma (ie, changing the calendar). Yet here we have the Russian Church in a heresy which in fact does effect dogma, for over 200 years....Surely the Russian Church has lost Sacramental Grace after spending two centuries in heresy?
Or have have in fact, neither the Russian Church, the Church of Greece, nor "World Orthodoxy" lost Grace, and therefore, those who schism from them have cut themselves off from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church?
Denial is the greatest proof that the conscience is troubled. Rather than answer simple questions like "Is it heresy to say that priests can forgive sins", those who live in denial will try to hurt the inquirer, the way a wounded animal lashes out even when you try to help it. It is the nature of a wounded animal to attack, whereas it is the nature of a human to show compassion and try to help.

Well, there is ignorance, this can be mistake but laziness too... I don not think the Russian church has ever taught the priest can forgive sins... You should read a Russian catechism to fIgure out... AND CHECK other Russian catechisms. The formula seems to be that the priest forgives but this is only a formula and I doubt people really believed it...

So read a Russian catechism.

[George Australia]

The formula seems to be that the priest forgives but this is only a formula and I doubt people really believed it...

What a strange thing for an Orthodox Christian to say.
In the Orthodox Church I know, "lex orandi, lex credendi" .
Since when have Orthodox Christians held that the Prayers of the Church cannot be trusted to be part of Holy Tradition? Should we now doubt that we can learn what is Holy Tradition through studying the Prayers of the Church?
And how does "people not believing" the words of the Priest edify anyone? And how does "people not believing" the words of the Church make this situation "better" or "not as bad"? Doesn't it make it worse that people cannot put their trust in what the Church officially pronounces? If, as you say, the priest is the "Icon of Christ", and yet, as you also say, the "Icon of Christ" knowingly speaks falsely when officially acting in the position of being the "Icon of Christ", then what conclusion should people come to about the Prototype of the "Icon"?
Is Orthodoxy no longer about seeking the Truth? Is this yet another innovation?

[Jean-Serge]

I will not enter in a sterile polemic... The faith and dogma are written in the catechism... So please, find me an extract of an official Russian catechism saying the priest has the power to forgive sins... This case was a ponctual mistake and in no text I read that the Russian church regarded the priest as being able to forgive sins... You can also ask many Russian priest that use this words. WHat do they really believe? Ask the bishops too...

It is a pity it has not been corrected but I think things chage very slowly in church; and maybe people had other things to do...I f you feel so uncomfortable, just launch a petition... I will be happy to sign it too...

[George Australia]

I f you feel so uncomfortable, just launch a petition... I will be happy to sign it too...

I've got a better idea. Why don't we just get three Bishops together into a Synod and pronoune all Slavonic Churches schismatic for continuing to officially teach heresy for over 200 years. If the Greek Old Calendarists declared the Church of Greece and the Ecumenical Patriarchate schismatic only 23 years after they changed the date on the Calendar, then surely we've given the Russian Church enough time after two centuries of the heretical formula of absolution?