Official OCA position

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Lounger
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Post by Lounger »

After the committing of an act of treason by the mutual "lifting of the anathemas" in 1965 by Masonic Ecumenical Patriach Athenagoras and the Pope, this was followed up in 1971 in part with the following:

"And what is taking place today? A great spirit of love is spreading abroad over Christians of the East and West. Already we love one another...already in America you (GOA Priests) give communion to many
from the holy chalice, and you do well! And I (Pat. Athenagoras) also here, when Catholics and Protestants come and ask to receive communion, I offer them the holy cup! And in Rome the same thing is happening, and in England, and in France. Already it is coming by itself."

On December 16, 1969, the Holy Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate made the official decision to permit Roman Catholics in the Soviet Union to receive communion from Orthodox priests. This practice continues to this day (at least confirmed through 1990) without Roman Catholics first being required to renounce the heresies of the Papacy and then to be joined to the Church by chrismation or baptism.

And from the "Thyateira Confession: "When they are not near a Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholics are permitted to receive the Holy Comminion in Orthodox churches and the same is also extended to Orthodox when they are not near an Orthodox church."

Do you really need a "Synodal Proclamation" before you flee from these insatiable souls who seek such shameful things against the Master! If a "Great Council" was convened, only a small percentage of the Orthodox could attend, if ecumenists were barred. So, what really would be accomplished? If the ecumenists weren't heard in 1965, what could be added by a "Great Council", that would make a difference today?

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尼古拉前执事
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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

And what of the official Mp position?

"The World Council of Churches is the cradle of the One church of the future...it is our common home"..."and we bear a special responsibility for its destiny."

Metropolitan Kirill
Press Conference - 7th Assembly of the WCC - February 1991 - Canberra

"World Council of Churches should remain faithful to its initial strive for the joint fulfillment of their common calling to attain unity in faith and in the eucharistic communion."

Patriarch Alexy II
Welcoming address - 7th Assembly of the WCC - February 1991 - Canberra

Nevski
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Re: :-(

Post by Nevski »

seraphim reeves wrote:

I'm starting to think some people would be less happy if there were no heretics.

Seraphim

Such a brilliant response, Seraphim.

Is that the best you can do?

Nevski
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Post by Nevski »

Nicholas wrote:

"I did not become orthodox to leave the false Roman church for the true Orthodox Church... For me the Orthodox and Roman churches, together with the various non-Chalcedoninan churches, these are all the one, true, apostolic, catholic churches of Jesus Christ... The sacraments in these churches, the priesthood, the basic doctrines, are essentially the same..."

From the newsletter by Abbot Laurence of New Skete, the largest OCA monastery in America.

You do know, don't you, that the New Skete has become the OCA's principal "problem child?" Send an e-mail to Bp. Tikhon and ask him about it.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Nicholas,

Nevski wrote in this thread,

Such a brilliant response, Seraphim.

Is that the best you can do?

In other threads he calls people weasel-like and liars.

Ignoring the persistent bend to the totally unreasonable and the constant provocations, are these openly personal attacks merited on an Orthodox forum?

Just my comments.

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Post by Waldemar »

"And the issue of Prof. John Erickson's heretical antics?" & those antics were...?

Dean Erickson comments on the antics of the "Traditionalists":

I was pointing out some of the assumptions behind early Orthodox participation in the ecumenical movement as presented, e.g., in
1920 encyclical of the Patriarchate of Constantinople. This encyclical took for granted that churches of east and west upheld the same moral values. It took for granted that one could in fact speak of the churches of east and west. It took for granted that the Church Universal was meant to be a communion of local churches. It took for granted that the Orthodox churches were the actualization of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church, but it also implicitly recognized that other local churches - even though separated for a variety of reasons, some very grave - nevertheless were not wholly sundered from church fellowship, that some bonds of communion remained, allowing the possibility of dialogue aimed at greater unity and fuller communion.

But not all Orthodox would agree with these assumptions. Some would take Orthodox claims to be the one true Church in an exclusive rather than an inclusive sense, so that outside the canonical limits of the Orthodox Church as we currently perceive them there is simply undifferentiated darkness, in which the pope is no better than a witchdoctor. How are we to evaluate these conflicting views? The exclusive view today claims to represent true Orthodoxy, traditional Orthodoxy. In fact - as I could argue at greater length - this "traditionalist" view is a relatively recent phenomenon, basically an 18th-century reaction to the equally exclusive claims advanced by the Roman Catholic Church in that period. Nevertheless this view has gained wide currency today. But where?And how? And why?

In fact this modern Orthodox "traditionalism" until quite recently made little headway in the traditionally Orthodox lands of eastern Europe. It has developed in the West, and it has thrived in the West, indeed here in the United States, especially in Greek Old Calendarist circles (including several monasteries in the United States) and in the closely allied Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (headquartered on East 93rd Street in New York City). Time does not permit us to trace here the ideological evolution of these groups. What is important to note is that those most committed to the "traditionalism" they preach are not pious old ethnics and emigres but more often zealous converts to Orthodoxy. Like Western converts to Buddhism and other more or less exotic religions (New Age, Native American...), these converts are attracted by their new faith’s spirituality, which seems so unlike what the West today has to offer. They also are especially quick to adopt those elements which they deem most distinctive, most antiwestern, about their new faith - not just prayer ropes and headcoverings but also an exclusive, sectarian view of the church that in fact is quite at odds with historic Orthodoxy.

Superficially their message, proclaimed on numerous websites, may seem to be at one with that of the established, "canonical" Orthodox Churches - at one with some of the statements of Patriarch Bartholomew or the Russian Orthodox Church, which, as we have seen, have been critical of the WCC and the Vatican. But in fact their message is different, even radically different. Their message, in my opinion, is more a product of the late modern or post-modern West than an expression of historic Eastern Christianity. . .

I have argued that the Orthodox retreat from ecumenism over the last decade is not a simple phenomenon, nor is it monolithic. Mainstream "canonical" Orthodox and "traditionalist" Orthodox operate from very different perspectives. But the line between mainstream and traditionalist is becoming fuzzier. Traditionalist rhetoric has been affecting the mainstream.

Let me give one example: the withdrawal of the Orthodox Church of Georgia from the WCC. This withdrawal was prompted by the threat of schism on the part of a significant monastic element if the church did not withdraw. Was this monastic element simply expressing the instinctive civilizational reaction of Orthodoxy to the alien western ideology of ecumenism? Was this a case of the Orthodox now being Orthodox? So readers of Huntington might argue. The story is not so simple. The literature emanating from this monastic element is very interesting. It could have been cribbed from "traditionalist" websites and publications here in the United States - the same rhetoric, the same accusations, the same claims, the same misinformation and disinformation. The Georgian Church as a whole, and certainly the catholicos, was not inclined to turn its back on the rest of mainstream Orthodoxy. Most of the monastic demands - e.g. to break communion with any Orthodox church that continued to participate in the ecumenical movement - in fact were rejected; leaders of the attempted schism were summoned to repent or face deposition. But to defuse the situation, a situation created in large part by alien "traditionalist" propaganda coming in from the West, the Georgian Church did announce its withdrawal from the WCC.

To sum up: Has there been an Orthodox retreat from ecumenism in postcommunist Russia and Eastern Europe? Yes. But this retreat cannot be explained simply by reference to dark and anonymous underlying civilizational forces. Any explanation must also take into account the relative ease with which pressure groups, sometimes quite small, can spread their preferred ideologies in our post-modern world. And any explanation must take into account the fact that such pressure groups are at work not only in the Orthodox east but also in the west and indeed throughout the world today.

From:

A Retreat from Ecumenism in Post-Communist Russia and Eastern Europe?
John H. Erickson
Harriman Institute
Columbia University
April 7, 2000
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/sipa/REGIONA ... ickson.pdf

Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Waldemar wrote:

But not all Orthodox would agree with these assumptions. Some would take Orthodox claims to be the one true Church in an exclusive rather than an inclusive sense, so that outside the canonical limits of the Orthodox Church as we currently perceive them there is simply undifferentiated darkness, in which the pope is no better than a witchdoctor. How are we to evaluate these conflicting views? The exclusive view today claims to represent true Orthodoxy, traditional Orthodoxy. In fact - as I could argue at greater length - this "traditionalist" view is a relatively recent phenomenon, basically an 18th-century reaction to the equally exclusive claims advanced by the Roman Catholic Church in that period. Nevertheless this view has gained wide currency today. But where?And how? And why?

I finished reading Eusibius' History of the Church a month back and I got the impression that the Church then took it's claims about itself in an exclusive sense.

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