Cyprian Was Wrong on Rebaptism

[Evfimy]

Here's more evidence from the fathers and archaeology on Saint Peter in Rome.

http://www.catholic.com/library/was_peter_in_rome.asp

[Evfimy]

Let us go back to the question of baptizing heretics.

The second ecumenical council accepted by the West and the Pope says :

1. As for those heretics who betake themselves to Orthodoxy, and to the lot of the saved, we accept them in accordance with the subjoined sequence and custom; viz.: Arians, and Macedonians, and Sabbatians, and Novatians, those calling themselves Cathari (or "Puritans"), and (those calling themselves) Aristeri (Note of Translator. — This designation may be based upon the Greek word aristos, meaning "best," though as a word it signifies "lefthand."), and the Quartodecimans (quasi "Fourteenthists," to use the English language in this connection), otherwise known as Tetradites (though in English this term is applied to an entirely different group of heretics), and Apollinarians we accept when they offer libelli (i.e., recantations in writing) and anathematize every heresy that does not hold the same beliefs as the catholic and apostolic Church of God, and are sealed first with holy myron (more usually called "chrism" in English) on their forehead and their eyes, and nose, and mouth, and ears; and in sealing them we say: "A seal of a free gift of Holy Spirit."

As for Eunomians, however, who are baptized with a single immersion, and Montanists, who are here called Phrygians, and the Sabellians, who teach that Father and Son are the same person, and who do some other bad things, and (those belonging to) any other heresies (for there are many heretics here, especially such as come from the country of the Galatians: all of them that want to adhere to Orthodoxy we are willing to accept as Greeks. Accordingly, on the first day we make (Note of Translator. — The meaning of this word here is more exactly rendered "treat as") them Christians; on the second day, catechumens; then, on the third day, we exorcize them with the act of blowing thrice into their face and into their ears; and thus do we catechize them, and we make them tarry a while in the church and listen to the Scriptures; and then we baptize them.

Were the Eunomians baptized in the name of the Trinity? What canon is that? Do you have a source?

Regarding Trullo, all you have to do is read about it online or in a book. The west did not accept it's canons.

Honorius did not affect the doctrine of infallibillity. He did not meet the criteria for an infallible proclamation. And many of the fathers after Honorius, said that Rome had been preserved intact all the way up to their own times. This would not be possible had Rome fallen into heresy.. Popes are not impeccable. They are infallible only when they speak ex cathedra.

Pomazansky has no authority. Christ did not delegate the authority of the keys to Pomazansky or his successors. The keys were delegated to Peter and his successors. The keys reside in Rome.

[Jean-Serge]

It is canon 7 of the second of the Second ecumenical council. You can read it in any collection of the canons in any language... online or in written books. It does not deal only with Eunomians, but also with Sabellians, Montanists and others. I know for sure that Montanists were baptized in the name of Trinity. Tertullian was a monatnist for instance... Sabellians too...

As regards Honorius, it is illogical to judge someting who happened centuries ago with a rule of infallibility invented ex nihilo in 1870.

I do not say Pomaznsky has authority, but the ecumenical councils do and they said, being recognised by the Pope :

"If anyone shall take the expression, Christ ought to be worshipped in His two natures, in the sense that he wishes to introduce thus two adorations, the one in special relation to God the Word and the other as pertaining to the Man… and does not venerate, by one adoration, God the Word made man, together with His flesh, as the Holy Church has taught from the beginning: let him be anathema" (Eerdmans, Seven Ecumenical Councils, p. 314).

Thee the catholics fall under their own anathema because they worship separatly the heart of Jesus due to the insane visions of a mentally ill catholic nun, Marguerite Marie Alacoque.

They also fall under their anathema because they have changed the Creed, which is forbidden by canon 7 of the 3d Ecumenical council :

1. These things having been read aloud, the holy Council then decreed that no one should be permitted to offer any different belief or faith, or in any case to write or compose any other, than the one defined by the Holy Fathers who convened in the city of Nicaea, with Holy Spirit. As for those who dare either to compose a different belief or faith, or to present one, or to offer one to those who wish to return to recognition of the truth, whether they be Greeks or Jews, or they be members of any heresy whatever, they, if Bishops or Clergymen, shall be deprived as Bishops of their Episcopate, and as Clergymen of their Clericate; but if they are Laymen, they shall be anathematized.

[Evfimy]

It is canon 7 of the second of the Second ecumenical council. You can read it in any collection of the canons in any language... online or in written books. It does not deal only with Eunomians, but also with Sabellians, Montanists and others. I know for sure that Montanists were baptized in the name of Trinity. Tertullian was a monatnist for instance... Sabellians too...

Canon 7 of Second Ecumenical Council:

Canon 7:" Relics are to be placed in all churches: no church is to be consecrated without relics."

Nothing about baptism.

[Jean-Serge]

Which is your source? I have checked in the Pedalion in English. You can see it here :

http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books ... oc34001968

You are wrong, you are quoting Canon 7 of the Seventh ecumenical council whereas I am talking about canon 7 of the Second Ecumenical council... However what you say is interesting because now the papists dedicate churches without relics... whereas the Pope of Rome accepted this canons too... Again, they have deposed themselves...

[Evfimy]

CANON 7:

"As for those heretics who betake themselves to Orthodoxy, and to the lot of the saved, we accept them in accordance with the subjoined sequence and custom; viz.: Arians, and Macedonians, and Sabbatians, and Novatians, those calling themselves Cathari (or "Puritans"), and (those calling themselves) Aristeri (Note of Translator. — This designation may be based upon the Greek word aristos, meaning "best," though as a word it signifies "lefthand."), and the Quartodecimans (quasi "Fourteenthists," to use the English language in this connection), otherwise known as Tetradites (though in English this term is applied to an entirely different group of heretics), and Apollinarians we accept when they offer libelli (i.e., recantations in writing) and anathematize every heresy that does not hold the same beliefs as the catholic and apostolic Church of God, and are sealed first with holy myron (more usually called "chrism" in English) on their forehead and their eyes, and nose, and mouth, and ears; and in sealing them we say: "A seal of a free gift of Holy Spirit...."

MY COMMENT:

The above were not rebaptized. Arians denied the deity of Christ and even they were not rebaptized. The below were baptized.

"As for Eunomians, however, who are baptized with a single immersion, and Montanists...."

MY COMMENT:

Some where and some weren't. Saint Cyprians program required the rebaptism of everybody. So I don't see this canon as supporting Saint Cyprian.

[Starman]

Evfimy,

Here's a helpful website with many articles and writings of the Holy Fathers:

http://www.geocities.com/jej89/orthodoxlinks.html

Also, specifically, the entire book of Abbe Guettee's(Vladimir Guettee) indepth study of the papacy from the first to nineth century. He gives great insight with letters that were written between the bishop of Rome and Constantinople. He had access to the original documents since he was commissioned to write a glowing documentary of the history of the See of Rome. The more he read, the more he saw how wrong it went.

http://www.geocities.com/trvalentine/or ... ml#guettee

Hi, I have been following some of these threads and have some questions. My first question is that I went to this second link and wrote Valentine. The email on his site is invalid. Do you know how I can contact him?