Relics

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Fri 3 December 2004 4:20 pm

I think everyone is talking about the same subject but form different angles, and everyone is correct.

We Orthodox know the path of salvation and recognize this as the ONLY means given to man. Clearly anyone not following this path is in dire straights, but so are we having been given everything (now what are we doing with it?).

However, (as everyone here knows) we are in the business of saving ourselves, not trying to figure out or judge what Christ has in store for everyone else. As Holy Scripture says, everyone will be judged according to their conscience. While they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven (as perhaps myself), they are not nessesarily condemned to "Hellfire". Christ is the God of mercy. In other words, there is no substitute for the Church and Christ and beyond that is largley unrevealed.

savva26 · Post by **savva26** » Fri 3 December 2004 4:39 pm

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:
I think everyone is talking about the same subject but form different angles, and everyone is correct.

We Orthodox know the path of salvation and recognize this as the ONLY means given to man. Clearly anyone not following this path is in dire straights, but so are we having been given everything (now what are we doing with it?).

However, (as everyone here knows) we are in the business of saving ourselves, not trying to figure out or judge what Christ has in store for everyone else. As Holy Scripture says, everyone will be judged according to their conscience. While they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven (as perhaps myself), they are not nessesarily condemned to "Hellfire". Christ is the God of mercy. In other words, there is no substitute for the Church and Christ and beyond that is largley unrevealed.

$/\$

Apologist · Post by **Apologist** » Wed 22 December 2004 12:25 pm

TomS wrote:
"Ashes to ashes; dust to dust"

IMO, purely historical. The "veneration of relics" is another area where the Church used faith to raise money. Martin Luther was right.

"And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet." (II, or IV, Kings 13:21)

The Church isn't a financial company, but the body of Christ. Sure, there are some priest that practice SIMONY, a sin which can be punished with DEPOSITION. But the Church in ecumenically INFALLIBLE.

"The Church of the Living God (is) the pillar and the ground of the truth." (I Timothy 3:15)

Apologist · Post by **Apologist** » Wed 22 December 2004 12:32 pm

TomS wrote:
I am looking for something specifically from a Father stating that he/the Church believes that salvation could/may come from someone/something else other than faith in Jesus Christ.

"For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus." (Romans 2:14-16)

"And those who lived according to the Word are Christians, even though they have been thought atheists; as, among the Greeks, Socrates and Heraclitus, and men like them." (St. Justin the Martyr, I Apology, 46:3)

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Wed 22 December 2004 1:00 pm

Apologist wrote:
"And those who lived according to the Word are Christians, even though they have been thought atheists; as, among the Greeks, Socrates and Heraclitus, and men like them." (St. Justin the Martyr, I Apology, 46:3)[/b][/color]

Good. So I no longer have to believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Just that he was a Son of God. What is important is that I live by his teachings. That will save me.

Apologist · Post by **Apologist** » Wed 22 December 2004 1:12 pm

TomS wrote:
Good. So I no longer have to believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Just that he was a Son of God. What is important is that I live by his teachings. That will save me.

Oh, my God! You're not thinking reasonably now. You're saying, "The Church says that I have the right not to believe, therefore I don't belive what the Church says"... If you THROW AWAY CHRIST'S TEACHINGS by rejecting His divinity, YOU CONSCIOUSLY REJECT THE SALVATION THAT HE OFFERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE CONSCIOUSLY BREAKING THE FIRST COMMANDMENT!!!! The good infidels will be saved because of their IGNORANCE!!! You aren't ignorant!!

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Wed 22 December 2004 1:38 pm

So you are saying that this is true ONLY for those who have no knowledge of the God-Man?

Do you believe it would be possible that this statement could apply to someone like Ghandi or a Buddhist Monk who lives his life similar to the teachings of Christ?