Russian Orthodox demand that Apple change its logo

[Cyprian]

Oh dear. Cast your gaze, if you please, toward the very upper left hand side of this web page. What are those three things St. Euphrosynos is holding in his hand? We commemorated the saint only a few weeks ago; surely everyone recalls the wonderful story about the three apples from Paradise? I'm a native of the apple state---Washington, and God-willing I will be headed to the Big Apple next week. Please, let's not be silly. There is nothing sinister in a simple apple.

[Matthew]

Not sure exactly to whose post you are responding, but to try to be entirely clear: I was not saying that because of St Savva's practice of eschewing apples that apples must be bad or evil. I definitely do not believe that St Savva was suggesting that either. He was simply using it as a mental reminder to strengthen them to avoid temptations of all kinds, of which the forbidden fruit of Eden is merely a symbol. (The Scripture does not itself indicate that it was an apple, that is merely a tradition which may or may not be assuming correctly what the fruit was).

The apple has a long history of carrying symbolic meaning, and I think the heart of the discussion is really a discussion about symbol and meaning, rather than about the fruit itself. Apples have been used not only as a negative symbol, but as a positive symbol too, as a kind of sign of God's favour. You note very well, Cyprian, the apples of Euphrosynos from paradise. But I think there are a few other saints' stories of apples from the other world too. I can guess that because the apple has been a symbol for some people of the Edenic Fruit of the fall, God in the lives of various saints has offered paradisiacal apples back in a miraculous fashion and thus is a demonstration of God's restoration and healing and reconciliation in Christ. So the apple then has two symbolic types: temptation and fall, and restoration and reconciliation.

Let's consider further the Apple computer logo that has a single bite out of it. It seems to be a hearkening back to the Garden of Eden and the fateful bite or tasting of the forbidden fruit. Why would they choose that for a computer logo? I don't know. But we can see that the world considers the "Eden-Eve-Apple" symbols to be something to rejoice and revel delectably in. The Christian sees in them something compunctionate. One taste was all that was needed to break the commandment and lose paradise and communion with God. So, maybe it is this perverse rejoicing in evil and pleasure (symbolised by the Edenic Apple) that Moscow was rejecting since the use of it as a symbol by the computer company was not to make people sin less but to sort of say, like Austin Powers, "Oh Yeah, Baby, Yeah!" And it is true that one of the greatest new curses never seen on Earth before in all this history is the depth and breadth of adultery and perversion that has come about by the juggernaut of internet pornography which has caused a pandemic of moral, spiritual and marital failures, not to mention abuses of women and children by men wishing to act out what hey have become addicted to viewing. The computer has made all this possible.

An apple is good, but in fallen hands or put to fallen uses it is a deadly weapon of the enemy of mankind. Hence, many Biblical symbols, like the apple, associated with sin and ungodliness are used in secular society and advertising as a way of "selling their dope." It is like society laughs in the face of God's holy judgements. Anyways, back to the topic, I note also, the story of Snow White and the 7 dwarves includes a poison apple offered by an evil witch. The idea of plenty, being associated with temptation, and that somehow the offerer of these things has satanic presence behind it is an old idea that appears in all kinds of places in our culture and art and society. I don't think anyone on Euphrosynos who has posted in this thread really believes that apples are sinister. Perhaps you are not understanding their words properly, or maybe they did not explain what they were driving at well enough.

[Cyprian]

Greetings Icxypion,

Thank you for your insights with regard to St. Savva. Actually, I had opened up the window to reply to the thread before I even saw your post. After my post was submitted I saw it came in after yours. So my post was not directed specifically at you, or anyone in particular for that matter. My response was directed generally toward what I perceive to be an unbalanced fear or paranoia of certain objects or symbols.

Please allow me to reiterate and expand on the points I wish to convey:

First, I take no issue with the interpretation given by some that the logo which has an apple with a bite out of it, may be construed as a subtle reference to seduction or temptation, as in partaking of the forbidden fruit. That may very well have been the subliminal intent of the founders, but no one can say for sure. My point is, the founders of Apple are/were not Christians, and do not have any affiliation with the Church, and do not speak for the Church. It is a secular company. Why should we be surprised or alarmed that their logo may be construed as antithetical to Christian philosophy? Many secular symbols are pagan in origin and have some sort of occult or esoteric meaning. Our entire society is permeated with these types of anti-Christian symbols. It is one thing to take note of them, and if we find them personally offensive, we also have the right to withhold our patronage of these corporations. But it is pure fanaticism on the part of this outspoken (hopefully minority) in Russia to demand that Apple replace their logo with the symbol of the cross. Since when are Christians supposed to act in a fascist manner and demand that the secular world accept and make use of our symbols?

I think there is an ulterior motive at work here. Why have they singled out Apple? Why not take it a step further and attack some other corporation, like say...Starbucks, which has expanded into Russia in recent years? I find their logo (which has changed a few times over the years) more offensive than the Apple logo. I think it is an affront to the Mother of God. The parallels/contrast are pretty striking. We can all readily see that the Starbucks logo has always contained an image of a mermaid. In the original logo the mermaid even had her breasts exposed. A mermaid is a sea maiden, from French "mer" for sea, and maid is simply short for maiden. Some fathers of the Church interpreted Mary or Mariam to mean "star of the sea". We take many words from the Latin root for the sea, such as maritime, marine, marina, mariner, etc. There are even many churches in the west dedicated to our Most-Holy Lady with this name "Star of the Sea". The Theotokos is also "Queen of Heaven". Notice that the mermaid is wearing a crown, as if she sits as a queen. (cf. Rev 18.7). Note the three five-pointed stars on the Starbucks logo, essentially in a triangular alignment. Once again, a mimicking of holy icons of the Mother of God, where we typically see three stars symbolizing the ever-virginity of the Theotokos: one on the Virgin's forehead, and one on each of her shoulders--forming a triangle. The Mother of God is all-pure, and chaste, but in the mockery of her in the Starbucks logo the mermaid has her legs (or tail if you will), spread apart in the most unlady-like position of a whore. I would be remiss if I didn't point out the connection between Aphrodite, the goddess of lust and fornication (who is often depicted topless like mermaids), since in the ancient Greek "aphros" means sea-foam, with the Hesiodic tale that Aphrodite was engendered from the sea-foam. It is also worth noting that In Hans Christian Andersen's famous story The Little Mermaid (1837), what happens to the mermaids when they die? They turn into sea-foam. In the Disney animation of the story, the little mermaid Ariel carries around a mirror with her. Aphrodite is often anciently depicted carrying a mirror. Finally, I might remind some here of Aphrodite's role in the quarrel over the golden apple culminating in the Judgment of Paris.

I trust that everyone here knows that the days of the week are dedicated to the gods, as are the planets, and many constellations. Sacred Scripture and the holy fathers of the Church teach us that Saturn and the Titans are figures of the devil and the fallen angels. Does anyone here drive a GM Saturn car, or a Nissan Titan truck, or root for the football team the Tennessee Titans? Do any of you watch films produced by the production company of Nicholas Cage, Saturn films? There is a phone called the HTC Titan. What about the Apollo space program, which employed the Saturn rockets?

Why stop there? Have we all looked at the back of a dollar bill?

The all-seeing eye, the letters spelling out M-A-S-O-N forming the masonic symbol of the square and compass. The six-pointed star formed from the thirteen stars. Should we burn all our one dollar bills? Doesn't this concern any of you?

All I see everywhere in the last decade is skulls, skeletons, and symbols of death. All of the largest and most influential stars are promoting this culture of death. Elton John, Madonna, Lady Gaga, Bon Jovi, Britney Spears and so many more are promoting skulls on their clothing and around their neck. Why don't Russians (and Westerners for that matter) launch a crusade against all the skulls and skeletons that are being foisted on our unsuspecting youth? A while back I noticed most all of the shows on TV these days seem to deal with the occult, ghosts, and the paranormal. I noticed there were even many shows brazenly trying to initiate children into this world. I studied several episodes of a series on A&E called Psychic Kids: Children of the Paranormal. What a sick, demented show. They would find kids who complained of being harassed by dead people (is it any surprise that kids would complain of this after the debut of films like The Sixth Sense?) and then some homosexual warlock would lead these kids to a haunted house where they would purposefully go looking for "ghosts" (demons). They would typically interview these kids in their own home and in their own bedroom for a bit to give a background on them. Almost without fail, in every episode I saw, you could find skulls and other demonic symbols on the clothes and in the rooms of the kids themselves or on their parents. And then these poor stupid parents would cry and moan about how they have lost their child to these frightening paranormal encounters. Of course these occultists never encouraged the families to take the occult symbols of death out of their child's lives, but encouraged the children to take control (over these demons that harassed them) and use them whenever they saw fit. Very sick.

I think these folks over in Russia ought to examine very closely their own churches for kabbalistic/masonic symbols of Baal/Moloch/Saturn/Raiphan before getting fanatical about the logo of a secular corporation like Apple. Cleanse their own houses of prayer first, before hypocritically beholding the mote in Apple's eye.

[jgress]

Don't the Russians bless apples on the Transfiguration?

I do not think that apples are in season in August.
They do not ripen until late September or early-October.

Peaches, grapes, plums, cherries, nectarines, and apricots are the seasonal fruits in August.

OK, I was wrong about that.

[joasia]

Don't the Russians bless apples on the Transfiguration?

I do not think that apples are in season in August.
They do not ripen until late September or early-October.

Peaches, grapes, plums, cherries, nectarines, and apricots are the seasonal fruits in August.

OK, I was wrong about that.

Actually, people do bring apples too since they are available all-year.

[Maria]

Don't the Russians bless apples on the Transfiguration?

I do not think that apples are in season in August.
They do not ripen until late September or early-October.

Peaches, grapes, plums, cherries, nectarines, and apricots are the seasonal fruits in August.

Actually, people do bring apples too since they are available all-year.

Cold storage non-seasonal apples are really mushy. I only take fresh fruit to the church from our trees and vines.

[Barbara]

Yes as Maria and Cyprian will agree, I am sure, there is nothing more unpleasant than a mush Red Delicious apple !
I only recall these from my very early years when friends of the family owned an orchard and used to drop off a large
carton of Red Delicious every year at Christmas.
Honestly, though, even the freshest weren't that good-tasting. They just LOOK good.

What does THAT mean? A symbol perhaps of the falseness of appearances. Evil operates through
the creation of tantalizing images to tempt people. Maybe it's of themself as a CEO, or
themself as a rock star, but many very deluded people especially now at this era, believe the devil's
swan song - and go chasing after him like the crew of Odysseus' vessel did after the Sirens.

Combining the discussion of mermaids [that was EXCELLENT !] with that of tempting sorceresses,
one finds such examples as the famous Sirens of The Odyssey.

Remember how only Odysseus survived the temptation by having his ears plugged so he could not hear ?

This is my idea: just AVOID the entire TRAP - for that is what it manifestly IS -
by "steering clear" of such questionable things as Apple computers, apples themselves,
Starbucks, etc.
It isn't possible to avoid the one dollar bill, but at least one can pray that the entire masonic system
will be removed by God with all its tentacles in the economy, society, attempts to ruin Churches, etc.

By the way the name Starbucks is such a crass choice, too. The Star combined like that sounds like
witchcraft. Then the "bucks" is a sleazy way to say "a dollar".
Add this together and it seems ANOTHER Siren song to lure dumb customers into throwing their moeny away,
ALMOST by use of hypnotism/withcraft/bad symbols to reel in the unconcsious types of people today.

This is a great thing to discuss here. It alerts all of us to some of the more hidden negatives that
we may realize, but not really take heed of.

Well if Russians are reading this maybe they will get some ideas of further Americanisms to protest !

I think the putting of a Cross is a LOVELY idea.
Crosses are not unknown in OLDER Western products, such as the semi-cross on the front of a Chevrolet car.

He is RIGHT about the death/skeletons/skulls - it is truly disgusting to look at EVERYWHERE !
I passed a ski jump place the other day and what the advertisement ? Totally unrelated to the
sports goods sold at the establishment, but obviously an attempt to sound 'cool', a big sign blared
"skull candy". After seeing it once, I averted my eyes every time passing by.

It's important to negate all these creepy evil things surrounding one living today in this society.
If one allows oneself to keep looking, it is like - well taking a bite out of that Forbidden Apple !
Ends up the same place : in the devil's palm.

That was clever about the Contest of Paris - notice what that resulted in: HUGE HUGE turmoil of The Trojan War,
10 years of pointless fighting which gained NOTHING for anyone !

Such is the devil's trademark: stirring up confusion and sitting back and laughing when all sides fight each otehr,
instead of fighting EVIL ~