Poll - Are the pious.....

[TomS]

So an action, such as fasting (which is what a pious person would be expected to do), with the resulting feeling of a closeness to God is an illusion?

Yes. If that person truly believed that an avacoda was god, then he would feel close to the avocado.

Second question: Why then does a "pious" Orthodox Christian fast? What is the benefit?

Because that is what the Church tells them you need to do. The benefit is that it does make the person focus on what they believe is the correct tenants to live by.

To me this is one of the good things about weekly confession. If you know that you are going to have to confess in a few days, you are more apt to consider your actions more closely.

[GOCPriestMark]

I am saying that the results (i.e., closeness to God) that he feels he receives from those actions are an illusion. It is conditioning.

Since illusion would best serve him, would you then say that pious practices are from the evil one?

How is it that pious actions do not bring one closer to God? Don't they aid in the remembrance of God?

[AndyHolland]

I am saying that the results (i.e., closeness to God) that he feels he receives from those actions are an illusion. It is conditioning.

Since illusion would best serve him, would you then say that pious practices are from the evil one?

How is it that pious actions do not bring one closer to God? Don't they aid in the remembrance of God?

God loves us and shows grace to the pious and the impious. The Sun shines on the just and unjust alike, and even the Ark had unclean as well as clean.

God is Father - the Creator of all. A Father loves a child whether the child loves him or not. If that is true of humans, how much more of Our Father in Heaven who is Love?

Having a truly loving Father, and desiring to draw near in faith and love, the pious war with the passions to empty themselves so that God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit might dwell together in them - and being so filled, they might perceive the one who loved them, even when they did not love or acknowledge their own Father and their own eternal brother.

andy holland
sinner - impius cheese eater

[TomS]

Since illusion would best serve him, would you then say that pious practices are from the evil one?

No. I said in my post that they can help focus ones attention on God.

How is it that pious actions do not bring one closer to God? Don't they aid in the remembrance of God?

My point is that God does not react either way. The feeling of being closer to God because of praxis is created in our minds. It is not in reaction to God approving/respondig to our actions.

[jacqueline]

"Are the pious loved by God because they are pious, or are they pious because they are loved by God?"

This is like the chicken and egg discussion, I think. But it's not an either/or situation. God loves us and gives His grace to all of us -- pious or not. We, on the other hand, have free-will (and other distractions) which give us a choice to ignore His love and grace or pay attention to it. Thus, it would seem that the pious pay more attention to grace and use every opportunity to exercise faith because they love God... The pious are pious because they love God.

[spiridon]

This question has arose before in my quest for understanding Orthodox, for instance my entire family was and is in the Latin Church -Does God love them? some of them are very very pious, But does God love them in the Latin church?
The only good and sobor answer I ever got was from a JP Priest who said, God is all merciful and made us in His Holy Image, and those questions cannot be anwered by us simple and feeble minded humans, and again its in Gods hands he said, but once you know the Truth in Orthodox ,you will be held accountable for yourself and all those you lead astray...most of my family had never even heard of Orthodox, yet alone seen it and been able to read about it and practice it, yet they prayed morning and evening and kept the fast and celebrated the Feasts and confessed and took Holy communion and gave alms, and Loved God...But did God love them because they were Pious, or Gods love made them Pious? thats a million dollar answer my friend and only god has that answer, but to my understanding
here is a Saints answer

About Falsehood in the mind the fathers tell us many such things in different ways to secure us against the harm suspicions do us. Let us strive with all our power never to put our trust in our own conjectures. For nothing separates us so completely from God or prevents us from noticing our own wrong-doing or makes us busy about what does not concern us, as this. No good comes from it but only troubles without number and they leave us no time to acquire the fear of God. Should worthless suspicions germinate in our minds, let us turn them into charitable thoughts and they will not harm us. For entertaining suspicions is wrong and it never allows the mind to be at peace. This is all I have to say about falsehood in the mind. St. Dorotheos of Gaza.

[Liudmilla]

I was always taught that your piety or lack of piety was nobody's business but yours and God's. If your piety is an outward expression then you are doing something wrong. Sort of the idea of doing things so that the right does not know what the left is doing. The problem is that people focus so much on seeming to BE pious that is their piety becames or has an adverse effect on them....pride and so on. But if you reach for piety in the secret of your heart and in the confines of your room ... then you are doing more to benefit yourself. Outward expressions are merely pride showing through.

Milla