Another (dumb) ROCOR question

Discussion about the various True Orthodox Churches around the world including current events. Subforums in other langauges, primarily English on the main forum.


Moderator: Mark Templet

Post Reply
Savva24
Member
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat 14 June 2003 10:25 am

Post by Savva24 »

Dear Sue,
I think that the compliance of the MP with the godless government is still and issue with our Church. Below is from a recent interview with Archbishop Hilarion of Australia. I hope it helps.

In Christ,

Nicholas

… Vladyka Hilarion, one more question: the question of the relationship between the Russian Church Abroad and the Moscow Patriarchate.

… This question is very serious and complex. The reason for the divisions which exist to this day is the intrusion of militantly atheistic Communion into the life of the Church; the consequences of this have yet to be eliminated. The Russian people and the Church of Russia have endured the most savage persecutions and genocide in the history of the world. In 1927, when the then Metropolitan Sergius (Stragorodsky) published his infamous declaration of loyalty to the Soviet Union,. he in fact thereby made the hierarchy of the Church subject to the godless government.

The episcopate became, in effect, the Soviets department for religious affairs. In this declaration it was stated that the joys of the Soviet Union were the joys of the Church. And these very “joys” at that time included the annihilation of the Faith in our homeland. It was then that the division took place within the Church of Russia. A large number of bishops, clergymen and believers in Russia cut off eucharistic communion with Metropolitan Sergius; and abroad, all the bishops and the entire flock also ceased ecclesiastical fellowship with Metropolitan Sergius (later patriarch). Beyond the borders of Russia, on the basis of Patriarch Tikhon’s Decree #362 of 1920, a temporary ecclesiastical administration was formed, known later as the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad.

Throughout the years of the Communist regime in the homeland, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad always bore witness before the world concerning the real, persecuted state of religion in the U.S.S.R., while the hierarchy of the Moscow Patriarchate had to give out false information about the state of the Russian Church in the homeland. In the Church of Christ there must never be any falsehood, just as it is not possible to serve two masters, as our Savior says. Yet many bishops of the Moscow Patriarchate had to do just that. We can understand their difficult position during the time of savage persecutions; but now, when Communism no longer exists as a political structure and pressure is no longer brought to bear upon the Church, one would expect from the Moscow Patriarchate an obligatory, conciliar dissociation from Sergianism and from the participation in the ecumenical movement and the World Council of Churches foisted on the Patriarchate by the godless government.

Until this happens, there is no possibility of serious discussion about healing the tragic division which has existed in the Church of Russia for so many decades. We very much desire and pray for the unity of the Russian Orthodox Church; but this unity can exist only on the basis of the Truth and purity. We see many positive, splendid changes for the better in the church life of the Russian people, and we rejoice in this. We understand that the deep wound of division borne by the body of the Church of Russia requires time to heal. This would largely depend upon the current leadership of the Moscow Patriarchate, if they are able to free themselves from servility to compromise, which contradicts the spirit of Christian doctrine, and become “laborers beyond reproach, preaching the word of truth with faith.

” Only in the Truth can the fellowship we call the Church of Christ exist. May the Truth of Christ prevail!

User avatar
Protopriest Dionysi
Jr Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue 8 July 2003 1:01 pm
Location: Ipswich, Mass
Contact:

Post by Protopriest Dionysi »

Paradosis wrote:

The bad effects of Origen didn't last forever, and the corruption caused by the soviets will eventually dissipate as well.

Not true. Orgien's teaching can still be found in many sects today. It is a nice thought that heresey will die with the heretict, but many times another will follow in the the same heretical footsteps.

Even if you were correct, but still a follower of Origen, you would not be Orthodox.

So, time is not what makes heresy go away, but a right faith. This is what the Stalinist Church much do. Correct their faith.

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Priest Dionysi,

You are correct, I apologize for saying what I did in the way that I said it. However, I did not intend to say that a heresy could fade in time, I was speaking of the cultural (or sub-cultural) impact that the soviet regime had. The question was, in my understanding, about the cultural/political effect that the soviet government had, and what effect it still had.* My point was that, as the MP found it's way back into the fullness of Orthodoxy, they would naturally (in time) be healed of whatever corruptions they had. Much in the same way that Gregory of Nyssa was eventually healed of his misunderstandings derived from his reverence for Origen. As I said, though, I shouldn't have used Origen as an example as it was a very confusing one to use.

As you undoubtedly have a different ecclesiology, and perhaps believe that the MP was totally graceless, this may sound like poppycock to you. But then, ROAC seems to see me as an apostate, so it should not seem too odd that I would hold to such a position.

Justin

  • Saint Justin Popovich, for example, mentions nothing of repentance regarding the MP and the soviet government in his text on the proposed summoning of the next ecumenical council. He merely says that many Orthodox Churches were not capable, at that time (1977) to participate as they should because they were still under soviet/communist/atheist governments. It should be noted that Saint Justin defended both ROCOR and the OCA's right to participate in such a council. Both. 1977.
Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

I hope the above was not offensive and did not seem to lack respect. bowing

Justin

User avatar
Julianna
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri 23 May 2003 4:12 pm
Location: Schnectady
Contact:

Post by Julianna »

Heretics were always invited to councils. Everyone who'se name's "Orthodox" should come to an OEcumenical council.

Image

User avatar
Julianna
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri 23 May 2003 4:12 pm
Location: Schnectady
Contact:

Father, bless

Post by Julianna »

I'll view messages at work but not reply until I'm at home. I could've been positive that Paradosis asked for a blessing from Fr. Dionysi but don't see it now Was I imagining things?

Image

User avatar
尼古拉前执事
Archon
Posts: 5126
Joined: Thu 24 October 2002 7:01 pm
Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Non-Phylitist
Location: United States of America
Contact:

Welcome!

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

Father Bless!

Welcome to the Euphrosynos Cafe, Father Dionysi! We used to have a Jerusalem Patriarchate priest, Father Serafim that frequented here, but of late we have been a priestless forum. Welcome aboard and I hope you will frequently stop by. I ask your prayers for this lowly sinner.

Kissing your right hand,
-Nicholas

Post Reply