The divorce of orthopraxy from daily life

[Justin Kissel]

PS. Just as a clarification, the practices themselves can, of course, bring about the right belief inside of us. It works both ways, it's not a matter of always getting things right within and then proceeding to the "outward stuff". In general, though, I think I can agree with what Nektarios was getting at.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Paradosis,

I agreed with Nektarios much more than I disagreed, but in no way could I let the statement I quoted pass.

You said: "Just as a clarification, the practices themselves can, of course, bring about the right belief inside of us."

Very true. And it also works the other way around, as it most often should. This is exactly what is happening today!

The separation into new-calendarists and traditional Orthodox Christians is a deliverance of the Church, not a striving for "super-correctness". The majority who have the spirit of the world will remain new-calendarists, thus cleansing the Church of Christ of all those who are "Christians" because they happen to be born in a "Christian" land. The few who have the spirit of the Fishermen will take refuge in the Church of Christ.

We have become witnesses of a historic event, as was said: “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (II Thess. 2:1-12).

The true Church of Christ in Greece, in Russia, in the whole world, is escaping from the suffocating embrace of the world which has always been the at odds with God. Freed from the clutches of authorities and powers which, in this last century, had offered her a tyrannical friendship, she emerges covered with blood, wounded, bearing the Passion of Christ and His marks on her Body, yet eternally alive and militant.

The new-calendarists, however, having slowly shaken off the separating "pride" of the Holy Fathers, is now also throwing off its mask and pretence of "Orthodoxy", and runs with a frenzied pace down the road to apostasy. The world will gather into its embrace all those who, deep down, are its own, even if they bear the name "Orthodox Christian" whether they be laymen, monks, deacons, priests or bishops and will slowly assimilate them with a all diabolical madness.

And to your point, There are many with the spirit of the world even among the traditional Orthodox Christians. When they discover that they have lost the comfort of this world's embrace, they will cease being Orthodox, and will return to their old ways. And many new-calendarists, who today are suffocating under the majestic domes of their secularized "Church", will find their way back to the humble, poor, scorned Church of the Fishermen. Re-alignments will take place. The Church, however, will remain what she always was, until the terrible and glorious day of the Lord.

[Nektarios14]

Your above post is very stereotypical and full of colloquialisms, which is all I have ever read against "traditionalists".

I consider myself to be a traditionalist, so I'm not writtinga a colloquialism against myself!

As for the rest of the post:

I think that you got a different meaning then what I intended to write. Forgive my poor articulation!

Here is my opinion. If the so called modernist jurisdictions focused on living the internals of Orthodoxy - repentance, the Jesus Prayer etc. as taught by the fathers - the natural result would be a proclivity towards traditionalism. What I intended to mean was the divorce of Orthopraxy from daily life is what lead to people accepting clean shaven priests and thinking traditional looking priests were some sort of freakish historical relic. The same thing with the calendar. I think this is especially true though of ecumenism (and isn't this the root of all other modernisms?) because they will see that Orthodoxy is not just "another Christian denomination" but something completely different than any heretical sect.

My point in invoking Saint Anthony's is to show that one can live on the new calendar but not take any of it's baggage like modernism or ecumenism. While not optimal it is a step towards spreading that further in the GOA. Once Ecumenism and modernism is gone, what's the purpose of keeping the new calendar? Similar to the ROCOR allowing churches to keep the new calendar for a limited amount of time while converting as an act of ecomony.

By not focusing on externals I mean not beating World Orthodoxy over the head for beardless priests, pewful churches, organs in their churches or the new calendar. A man could have a beard to his tows, a pewless church and follow the old calendar in the end not be saved! Beat World Orthodoxy over the head for forsaking monasticism, ascetisim and prayer (which caused the externals to fall away).

This past week I read something that is exactly what I needed to read and expresses what I felt but am too clumsy to say: "The Inward Mission of Our Chuch" by Saint Justian Popovich.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Nekatarios,

Yes, I would have edited my post if I could. The only exception to your original post was the one sentence I qouted. Everything else was good. Forgive me if I offended you.

And I like your last post quite a bit, although I would take strong exception with any thought that there can be refuge from heretics while at the same time commemorating them.

[Nektarios14]

OOD,

No offense was taken. I appreciate an honest critique of my thinking as I work toward crucifing the old way of thinking.

It does give me pause each time I hear "For our Archbishop Anthony/yper...Antoniou" and how four tiny words cause such a commotion. But until the EP and Rome formally unite or Antioch and the monophysites I don't think I'd leave.

[Gregory2]

Hello, I'm new here and just wanted to thank the creators of this site -- as I strive to have more "orthopraxis" in my life.

[Chrysostomos]

OOD,

I appreciated Necktarios comments and felt that they had merit
for consideration, as you mentioned that they did as well.

Interesting though was your reply to Necktarios:
Those new-calendarists who are striving for "cultivating Orthodoxy in the heart" such as the monks in Arizona, are like the shipwrecked who have climbed to the highest part of the ship which hasn't slipped below water yet. These are the ones who are more likely to someday be saved by the Ark of Christs Church. But make no mistake, their ship is sinking.

Could I not say the same about traditionalists:

They are on an island, surrounded by crashing waves, which represent
the tumultous world in which they live. They of course, are standing
at the peak of the island, surveying the waters around them.
They are right, fully correct, know that they are retainers of the truth faith. Out in the water, there are the masses, who are struggling to get on the rock/land on which "the traditionalists" stand. They reach out the traditionalist to be pulled from the clashing waves of modernism and humanism, yet the traditionalist stands and says, you should know better, save yourself, as for us, we are saved.
My issue isn't with traditionalists, for I consider one myself. It is the
attitude, the Pharasical attitude that can become so prevalent among
those who consider themselves "traditionalists", or "modernists". I speak as one who has been guilty of this many times and most likely will continue to have bouts with this. The difference now is this: I truly believe that if I, as a traditionalist feel that I have the truth, will live it, and share it, not from some self-boasting, vain-glory way of displaying my superiority, but rather living it, by humility and example via the
process of acecsis and deification. I must be willing, in all humility
to go down from my perch, and reach out to those in the water
and help pull them from the mighty waves that buffet them so
strongly. That of course also extends out to those who are not
even Orthodox. Yes, by reaching out, I too take the risk that I may be pulled in, and yet I lead by example, not by words alone.

I thank you OOD for your prayers as I said before, and continue
to ask for them. May God honor all your petitions on my behalf
in regards to salvation and spiritual growth. I gladly extend kiss of
peace to you as I hope you will to me.

With humble bow,

Reader Chrysostomos