Russian Orthodox wish happy Easter to other churches...

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Anastasios
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Post by Anastasios »

joseph b wrote:

anastosios wrote:

"I don't think someone sending someone else greetings blurs the distinction between Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy,"

Yet, you yourself refer to the other "Churches". The distinction has indeed been blurred.

Of course I refer to people the way they refer to themselves; this is what polite people do. Being True Orthodox doesn't give you a license to be rude. Are you like a certain priest on another list who refers to the "Roman Catholic Religious Organization"? (which I consider an absolutely uneducated and crude thing to do, and which I know for a fact has driven off potential converts from Roman Catholicism). Just because I refer to another Church as a Church doesn't mean I think it has valid sacraments--the word Church has multiple layers of meaning. I was raised in the Lutheran Church--does that mean I recognize my Lutheran baptism? No. But the Lutheran Church is a body that calls itself Church, so I call it Church in common parlance, although if I am discussing what it means to be a Church with a Lutheran, I might go further to help show the Lutheran how his Church does not measure up to the standards of Churchliness found in the Orthodox faith.

In a similar vein, the Orthodox Church is the "real" Roman Catholic Church because it is truly Catholic and truly Roman (in the sense that Romanides used). But do I run around saying I am a member of the True Roman Catholic Church and tell the commonly-called Roman Catholics "Frankish wannabes"? No. What would be the purpose and what would that effect? Besides being RIGHT we need to be CHARITABLE.

Anastasios

Anastasios
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Post by Anastasios »

Dear OOD,

You err on the side of caution and I err on the side of holding out honey. In both cases we aim to see the conversion of Non-Orthodox to Orthodoxy completely, but we approach it in a slightly different way. I can appreciate your point that in this day and age, the letter cited can be read the wrong way and can even give the impression that in fact, the MP considers the RCC to be a real Church in the Orthodox sense of the word. I myself believe that the letter should have at least had some kind of mention of wishing for a return of the RCC to Orthodoxy but my point was basically that fraternal relations in and of themselves do not betray the faith. Your point is that the letter seems to encourage someone in error. I can see how the letter gives that impression. However, taking the letter in context, where the MP is at this time actively against Catholic proselytism and routinely denouncing the RCC, it just seems that this letter falls more in the category of polite discourse. Some may raise the question, of what utility is such a thing? My point is only that sometimes we can open doors in unexpected ways, and so I am in favor of frequent contact with heterodox on a diplomatic level (i.e. I am totally opposed to joint "prayer" and membership in the WCC), because even if we cannot effect the conversion of an entire heterodox body, we might see some individuals come over to our side.

Anastasios

1937 Miraculous Cross
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Post by 1937 Miraculous Cross »

...of course, with our friends and family, who wants to be rude and spoil their Easter events. It ultimately doesn't win any points to bring up the matter of the "real Easter", ie, Holy Pascha. On the other hand, I think the real concern that is brought about Patriarch Alexis' letter is precisely that he is supposed to be an Orthodox bishop defending the Faith. If he greets the Pope about Easter, and can write about the "risen Christ" before Pascha, what does this say about him? In my opinion this is not just about simple courtesy. It is more of the disease of ecumenism in a certain way. How can one speak of the risen Christ while the Church is in Lent?

Nectarios

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Post by TomS »

1937 Miraculous Cross wrote:

.. If he greets the Pope about Easter, and can write about the "risen Christ" before Pascha, what does this say about him? In my opinion this is not just about simple courtesy. It is more of the disease of ecumenism in a certain way. How can one speak of the risen Christ while the Church is in Lent?

Very good point.

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Anastasios
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Post by Anastasios »

1937 Miraculous Cross wrote:

...of course, with our friends and family, who wants to be rude and spoil their Easter events. It ultimately doesn't win any points to bring up the matter of the "real Easter", ie, Holy Pascha. On the other hand, I think the real concern that is brought about Patriarch Alexis' letter is precisely that he is supposed to be an Orthodox bishop defending the Faith. If he greets the Pope about Easter, and can write about the "risen Christ" before Pascha, what does this say about him? In my opinion this is not just about simple courtesy. It is more of the disease of ecumenism in a certain way. How can one speak of the risen Christ while the Church is in Lent?

Nectarios

Because Christ is always Risen. We go through the cycles of the Church, but for Christ it is eternal and outside of time.

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TomS
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Post by TomS »

anastasios wrote:
1937 Miraculous Cross wrote:

...of course, with our friends and family, who wants to be rude and spoil their Easter events. It ultimately doesn't win any points to bring up the matter of the "real Easter", ie, Holy Pascha. On the other hand, I think the real concern that is brought about Patriarch Alexis' letter is precisely that he is supposed to be an Orthodox bishop defending the Faith. If he greets the Pope about Easter, and can write about the "risen Christ" before Pascha, what does this say about him? In my opinion this is not just about simple courtesy. It is more of the disease of ecumenism in a certain way. How can one speak of the risen Christ while the Church is in Lent?

Nectarios

Because Christ is always Risen. We go through the cycles of the Church, but for Christ it is eternal and outside of time.

Hmm. This is true also. Very good point!

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Post by Stepanov »

I, too, think Patriarch Alexei's greeting to the Pope was over the top. What "lofty service" does the Pope perform? Misleading countless millions? Pressing his lips to the Koran?

It's okay to send Easter greetings to Latins and Protestants. We should be polite.

I recently saw on another board a thread in which Orthodox Christians offered prayers for the health of the ailing Pope. Many of the posts included phrases like this: "Lord have mercy on your servant, John Paul II."

Huh?

Whose servant is the Pope, exactly?

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