Am I a Heretic?

[TomS]

Do we and modern Jews worship the same God?

We will never know in this life.

[Justin Kissel]

I think the answer (in my opinion) as to whether they are worshipping the same God lies in how they understand God. God is one, though three persons. If anything, I think that modern Jews would be even more (not less) in trouble, if they did not understand God as a Trinity. After all this time, and all the discussion and debate, can they still think that Jesus was not God? That the Holy Spirit is not a person? I've not read a lot about the debates in the early centuries concerning God, but from what I have read, it seems to me that the Fathers believed that understanding Who God was was crucial to salvation. This is not to say that one had to be a PhD level academic who could rattle off a list of doctrines... but only that one had to have a right faith about God. At some point, the focus of salvation switched from God to Man: the focus went from who God was, what the incarnation of Jesus meant, etc., and became about how man might be saved, how good works play into the picture, etc. Of course, this is just a generalization, and does not perfectly describe the situation, but I think it is for the most part true.

This is why, IMO, we tend to be easier with accepting other religions today: because we look at their practices, notice similarities, and think that maybe they aren't all that different from us after all. We see chanting or singing, worship, prayer, fasting, study, and so forth, and begin to think that perhaps we aren't so different after all. But, as Jesus said, one can even work miracles in his name, and still not know them. Jesus told the disciples to not stop those who were doing works in His name... but that doesn't mean they really knew him, just because they did the works and mentioned his name. Today we like to follow the how of salvation: we focus on ourselves and ask lots of questions about ourselves (the divine dispensation). But, if we are to follow the principles of the Fathers, I think we need rather to ask how people understand God Himself. St. John of Damascus spoke of monothysites, saying that they were Orthodox in every way.... except in their understanding of Christ. And that one thing--in spite of them getting everything else right--seperated them from God.

[Justin Kissel]

TomS

We will never know in this life.

Why not? All you have to do is ask them. I used to chat in various places, and would sometimes go into the Religious Jewish rooms. I would ask whether they believed that Jesus was God. In between calling me a goy and mocking me for believing "fables," they would quite straight-forwardly tell me that I was a polytheist, and then go on to rebuke me for "corrupting" the scripture, murdering and persecuting their people, etc. Because I am a sinner, I might very well be a henotheist in practice, but one thing I am sure of is that God is a thrice-brilliant light, and that one is in darkness, fumbling around with eyes closed, if one rejects one of those lights.

[priestmark]

Do modern Jews worship the True God?

The ones in the Orthodox Christian Church do.

Fr Seraphim Rose has a chapter on this topic in "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future"

[Sean]

At some point, the focus of salvation switched from God to Man: the focus went from who God was, what the incarnation of Jesus meant, etc., and became about how man might be saved, how good works play into the picture, etc. Of course, this is just a generalization, and does not perfectly describe the situation, but I think it is for the most part true. [...]
Today we like to follow the how of salvation: we focus on ourselves and ask lots of questions about ourselves (the divine dispensation). But, if we are to follow the principles of the Fathers, I think we need rather to ask how people understand God Himself.

I see where you're coming from brother, but I'll have to disagree with you. The reason dogmatic formulation ocurred in the Oecumenical Councils was only by default, because heresies arose to contradict the teachings of the Church. Many fathers said that these early heretics forced them to dwell on subjects which should be held in reverence and silence in the heart. Protopresbyter Michael Pomazansky makes this point when he asserts the differences between philosophy and theology. To paraphrase him; the focus of philosophy is ontological (dealing with existence), whereas the focus of theology is soteriological (dealing with salvation). There are vast mysteries in the hereafter which we are simply not yet meant to know in our fallen state; especially with regards to the inner life of God. What is important for us NOW is to strive for the salvation of our souls. This is why salvation is called "The One Thing Needful."

--Sean

[Justin Kissel]

Sean,

Very interesting point, thank you for the correction!

[CGW]

Do modern Jews worship the True God?

Well, work it through. Is the God of Christianity the same as that of the ancient Jews? Of course; He must be.

Do modern Jews continue to worship this God? I would tend to think so.

OK, so where does Jesus fit into this? Well, obviously the problem is that they will not worship God in the person of Jesus. To my mind this is a defect in their worship, to be sure, but it's an error on their part about GOd's nature and acts, not that they have the wrong God.