Canaanites

Reading from the Old Testament, Holy Gospels, Acts, Epistles and Revelation, our priests' and bishops' sermons, and commentary by the Church Fathers. All Forum Rules apply.


gphadraig
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Post by gphadraig »

Sir, I thought very carefully before giving my original answer and this question has been posed before elsewhere as I am sure you are already aware. It is often used to catch believers out, just as those who asked Our Lord whether it was lawfull to offer tribute to Caesar tried to catch Him out. In writing this I do not accuse you of anything other than not being satisfied with my first answer.

It is not a contradiction but rather a paradox, something which happens in life. In the European Union the death penalty is outlawed. The law says clearly you may not kill, but there are circumstances when this cannot stand, e.g. when police officers have to shoot in order to protect others or themselves, or when someone is in danger and fear of their life and no lesser act of self defence is adequate. Again there is no contradiction. However, someone who kills and who is secured by the police may not be judically executed in line with EU law on the outlawing of the death penalty.

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TomS
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Post by TomS »

in the first case God commanded the Hebrews to act so, and in the contemporary example some take such a course upon themselves without a Divine command. That is the first acted in obedience and the second out of hatred and pride?

But how do you KNOW that? How do you know that God is not telling a Christian to kill the abortionist?

The answer to this question historically has been "Because God says 'that shalt not kill' and therefore killing is a sin. And God does not and cannot sin."

Is there another answer?

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They say that I am bad news. They say "Stay Away."

gphadraig
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Post by gphadraig »

I am not going to try to answer because I sense your enquiry stems from an approach we do not share. In scripture which is inspired by God we are told and, I believe God, commanded the Hebrews, and on this occasion they obeyed. Something, we all know they did not always do.

I believe, simply that, just as I believe this world was made by God. Those who kill doctors, nurses and others at abortion clinics are not called on by God to kill them. No prophet or lawful authority commands such. No, theirs is a hate and pride filled action contrary to the teaching of Scipture, Tradition and the Fathers; which just adds to the human tragedy. I believe that these 'terrorists' justification differs little from that of the so-called animal liberationists and all the other 'terrorists'. All can and do offer a rationale or justification for their action. The God of these people is Man, the Arbiter and Measure of all.

Some will not accept God so commanded the Canaanites slaughter. And they no doubt will pick and choose what else they will or will not accept. This is something beyond me. I accept God's wisdom and revelation in Scripture but do not necessarily understand it. As I use a computer but struggle understanding that too.

Wheeler
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Post by Wheeler »

I know I am on an Orthodox website when in answering a question and trying to prove a point no scripture is used.

"Thou shalt not kill" is not scripture it really reads "Thou shalt not murder" in the Hebrew Masoretic text.

God did command the killing of the pagan cannanites to the very last one including all the beasts. The animals are just as guilty.

If you disagree, what did the Flood do? God destroyed the Humans along with all the animals. he saved only a tiny portion thereof.

It says in Scripture, "Defend the widow and the orphan". To sit still and let abortions happen is criminal and morally wrong. Passivity is not a Christian doctrine. Christians tore down pagan temples. We have something more dastardly going on-abortion. God has already spoken "Defend the widow and the orphan!!!!".

What don't you get?

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TomS
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Post by TomS »

WHEELER wrote:

What don't you get?

I don't know if you are asking this question of me or not.

If you are asking it of me then I will answer as follows: I DO get it. I support the death penalty for those who have killed and war in defending the faith.

What I DON'T get are the Orthodox who do not.

I tend to play devils advocate many times to get people to think about what they are saying (so very Protestand of me). Most times Orthodox nowadays just spew out the liberal dung that they have been told by this generation of politically correct Priests.

We must FIGHT for the faith.

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Wheeler
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Post by Wheeler »

Rereading the Septuagint the Greek is "Ou phonevseis". In "An English-Greek Lexicon" ed. by Younge 1870 in the synonym section it reads "phonevein" means to commit a murder, to assinate kill.

It should read "To murder" not to kill.

The bible, and ultimately God, praises Phineas. Phineas is the one who killed an Israelite while bedding a moabitess.

The Scriptures praise King David,

"Saul killed his thousand but David his ten thousands".

The Old Testament, God is the "Lord of Hosts". What is this? God is the God of WAR. He is the War God. It says in the Masoretic text, Exodus 15.3, "The Lord is a man of war".

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George Australia
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Post by George Australia »

WHEELER wrote:

It says in the Masoretic text, Exodus 15.3, "The Lord is a man of war".

The Masoretic text?
Two reasons why this is not a good argument:
(a) This is an Orthodox forum- and the Orthodox do not accept the Masoretic text.
(b) Considering your suspicion of the Jews in a previous thread, it is very strange that you accept the Masoretic text in this instance.

Addit: Isn't it interesting that the Septuagint has the exact opposite meaning of this verse:

Exodus 15:3 The Lord bringing wars to nought, the Lord is his name.

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