Ecumenistic Intercommunion among Orthodox and Roman Catholics

[Matthew]

What about Elder Ephraim's system of monastic institutions? Where will they go when they can no longer put forward such deceptive excuses as you explained? Will they join a Greek True Orthodox synod, do you think? Which one if you have any sense of that? GOC-K maybe?

Personally, I don't think the Elder Ephrem group will ever leave the Ecumenist Orthodox. Also, I think that it would be unfair to take a dim view of the sincerity of the traditionalists amongst the World Orthodox, like the followers of Ephrem of Arizona. They are very good and concerned about the problems in their midst. It seems to me that they are not being deceptive or making excuses, but simply operating under a misunderstanding. I really don't know where they might be most inclined to go if they ever did make a break with World Orthodoxy. I pray God's help be granted them to find the way to a safe spiritual harbour.

[Archimandrit Nilos]

These are old hats !

[Matthew]

Yes, that is true Father Nilos. It is old hat; but only for us who follow St Matthew the New Confessor. For those in the ecumenist Orthodox circles who believe that the Church can be divided into non-intercommuning pieces and yet all retain the grace of mysteries, this is something they still need to hear because they have still not understood the dogma in the Creed, "One Holy Catholic Apostolic" Church. They still think like protestants that this is speaking especially of an invisible unity and that the visible is non-essential and that the first can exist without being joined at the hip with the other; which you and I know is simply not true. Hence, the hope is that by repeating it over and over, members in other Orthodox churches, be they World Orthodox or consider themselves to be "True Orthodox", but nonetheless are ensnared in the same ecumenist thinking in their ecclesiology on the Oneness of the Church, that they might by continual repetition receive a full, unobstructed and unmitigated epiphany and come into the full confession of the faith and come to Our Holy Church preserved by the right actions and beliefs of our beloved St. Matthew. It took me many years to reach this understanding, so immersed in modern assumptions and notions as I was and as is my generation, but when I saw it it was shockingly simple and I wondered why I had not understood for such a long time and despite so much reading in Orthodox books and such. So, I figure if I can come to my senses after so long a sleep, then perhaps so can others.

[Matthew]

What about Elder Ephraim's system of monastic institutions? Where will they go when they can no longer put forward such deceptive excuses as you explained? Will they join a Greek True Orthodox synod, do you think? Which one if you have any sense of that? GOC-K maybe?

...I think that it would be unfair to take a dim view of the sincerity of the traditionalists amongst the World Orthodox, like the followers of Ephrem of Arizona. They are very good and concerned about the problems in their midst. It seems to me that they are not being deceptive or making excuses, but simply operating under a misunderstanding.

To clarify this previous post, I do think there is insincerity and excuse-making, but I think it is more true of the bishops, lower clergy, and academics. The traditionalist layfolk, and some of the more simple and trusting priests who have lived insulated lives from the voice of Genuine Orthodoxy are simply misled by their misplaced trust in their leaders and academics who have worked hard to convince them that they remain the True Church despite their overthrow of dogma and tradition.

[Maria]

To clarify this previous post, I do think there is insincerity and excuse-making, but I think it is more true of the bishops, lower clergy, and academics. The traditionalist layfolk, and some of the more simple and trusting priests who have lived insulated lives from the voice of Genuine Orthodoxy are simply misled by their misplaced trust in their leaders and academics who have worked hard to convince them that they remain the True Church despite their overthrow of dogma and tradition.

The monks and laity who follow Elder Ephrem of Arizona have become convinced that the EP-glorified Elder Paisios, who used to be a part of us, was correct to leave us, and that they must be obedient and not judge either the MP or the EP. Therefore, in their blind obedience, they have become blinded to the error of their ways, so that they judge those of us who remain faithful to the Holy Traditions espoused by St. Matthew the New Confessor.

[Matthew]

Indeed, Maria. You have hit the nail on the head. One error often leads to another. Protestants whose founders began as almost entirely Catholic (Calving and Luther espounsed the ever viginity of Mary, for example, but all their children have entirely rejected this idea and some go so far as even to teach "holy and mystical sex," or grace in the marital act, for Christian couples) have found that the "churches" they created have taken the Protestant premise to its logical conclusions and adopted many other faults that their founders did not fall into.

[Barbara]

Are you sure that Calvin also acknowledged the Ever-Virginity of Our Heavenly Queen ?
I think it was only Luther who did. Though I did not want to look up Calvin OR Luther, even for a minute.
Luther was not as radical as Calvin was in rejecting ALL the tenets of the Catholic Church.
Calvin was extreme.
Actually, it's difficult to imagine from this distance that either of these rebels attracted any kind of following. Surely the devil arranged the whole show.