ROCiE

[Ekaterina]

I saw this on the paradosis list........Katya

To: orthodoxjurisdictions@yahoogroups.com, orthodox-tradition@yahoogroups.com, orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
From: "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 07:46:49 -0700
Subject: [paradosis] Mansonville Circus

The Mansonville circus continues.

Briefly, some revealing materials have appeared regarding what is going on there.

Published is a hand-written Ukaz by Metropolitan Vitaly calling off the Hierarchical Sobor that Archbishop Anthony Orloff and Bishop Viktor Pivovarov tried to ram through for yesterday's date-- and the handwritten Ukaz calls all previous Ukazes issued from 15/28 May to 4/17 June 2006 as "non-existent."

http://www.russia-talk.com/otkliki/ot-491.htm

Now, the "Editors" of the Orloff-Pivovarov official ROCiE site have published a statement that this hand-written Ukaz of Metropolitan Vitaly has no juridical or canonical merit, and that it may have been produced using violence against the person of the Metropolitan.

http://www.mansonville.org/modules.php? ... r=0&told=0

Also, two tape recordings have been posted in mp3 format of what occurred in Mansonville last weekend. These tapes were made by the ROCiE priest in Montreal, and are extremely revealing about the tactics and methods of the Orlov-Pivovarov faction trying to wrest control of the ROCiE. One can hear Metropolitan Vitaly being informed of this coup attempt and his asking "what can be done about it." One can also hear the hysterical outbursts of Irina Vinogradova-Mitze talking about how Katina Peters had posted "lies" about her and how Mitze was going to reveal all of Katina's past history on her site.

See: http://legro.livejournal.com/807.html

The Budzilovich site also reports that the Church at Mansonville has been blockaded by Montreal parishioners to keep the two "Soviet" Archimandrites (Damascene and Stefan) from being consecrated bishops by Orloff and Pivovarov.

See link above.

In any case, the whole situation is a fiasco. Bishop Anastasij refused to attend the planned "Sobor" which was planning to consolidate the Orloff-Pivovarov coup by removing Bishops Vladimir and Bartholomew (and the European clergy) and consecrating Damascene and Stefan.

Stay tuned.

If anyone in ROCiE still believes that it is a valid, legitimate jurisdiction, please come to your senses NOW. These events and documents show what is really going on.

Are you listening, Mr. K, Mr. R, Ms. P?

With love in Christ,

Prot. Alexander Lebedeff

[ioannis]

I would think fr. Alexandre Lebadet could hardly find the time to be concerned about any ROCiE "circus", considering his own local church just joined a cemetary full of failed circus acts.

In other words, he is not even with the Church.

[spiridon]

What exactly is meant by "Joining a cemetary of circue acts" ?

[Priest Siluan]

I saw this on the paradosis list........Katya

To: orthodoxjurisdictions@yahoogroups.com, orthodox-tradition@yahoogroups.com, orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
From: "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 07:46:49 -0700
Subject: [paradosis] Mansonville Circus

The Mansonville circus continues.

Briefly, some revealing materials have appeared regarding what is going on there.

Published is a hand-written Ukaz by Metropolitan Vitaly calling off the Hierarchical Sobor that Archbishop Anthony Orloff and Bishop Viktor Pivovarov tried to ram through for yesterday's date-- and the handwritten Ukaz calls all previous Ukazes issued from 15/28 May to 4/17 June 2006 as "non-existent."

http://www.russia-talk.com/otkliki/ot-491.htm

Now, the "Editors" of the Orloff-Pivovarov official ROCiE site have published a statement that this hand-written Ukaz of Metropolitan Vitaly has no juridical or canonical merit, and that it may have been produced using violence against the person of the Metropolitan.

http://www.mansonville.org/modules.php? ... r=0&told=0

Also, two tape recordings have been posted in mp3 format of what occurred in Mansonville last weekend. These tapes were made by the ROCiE priest in Montreal, and are extremely revealing about the tactics and methods of the Orlov-Pivovarov faction trying to wrest control of the ROCiE. One can hear Metropolitan Vitaly being informed of this coup attempt and his asking "what can be done about it." One can also hear the hysterical outbursts of Irina Vinogradova-Mitze talking about how Katina Peters had posted "lies" about her and how Mitze was going to reveal all of Katina's past history on her site.

See: http://legro.livejournal.com/807.html

The Budzilovich site also reports that the Church at Mansonville has been blockaded by Montreal parishioners to keep the two "Soviet" Archimandrites (Damascene and Stefan) from being consecrated bishops by Orloff and Pivovarov.

See link above.

In any case, the whole situation is a fiasco. Bishop Anastasij refused to attend the planned "Sobor" which was planning to consolidate the Orloff-Pivovarov coup by removing Bishops Vladimir and Bartholomew (and the European clergy) and consecrating Damascene and Stefan.

Stay tuned.

If anyone in ROCiE still believes that it is a valid, legitimate jurisdiction, please come to your senses NOW. These events and documents show what is really going on.

Are you listening, Mr. K, Mr. R, Ms. P?

With love in Christ,

Prot. Alexander Lebedeff

Dear Katya:

Is this the way as a priest should behave?

You have always insinuated saying many times that my behavior was not worthy for a priest, when I sincerely said about differents cuestions and without deceit, but apparently the behavior of this Father Alexander Lebedeff seems not to be a shame for you.

God may have mercy for you.

Priest Siluan

[StephenG]

Sadly, I wonder if what is being seen on this thread is a phenomena often seen in worldly pursuits, especially politics. A sort of double standard, where anything the opposition does in examined and met with highly critical analysis but those of your same team/party/ faction can never be wrong, and any infraction or misdeeds are denied, ignored or glossed over.

One example being the propensity of the left to ignore the genocide of left wing parties and leaders while continually highlighting the undoubted cruelty and worse of right-wing regimes. Or democratic states which one day laud a dictator, only later tell all that will hear what an unacceptable regime he runs. Rumsfeld and Saddam Hussein come to mind.

Sadly, a not dissimilar phenomena appears to happen in church life too.

[Ekaterina]

StephenG:
I agree with you regarding the double standards....In fact, I expected the reaction that my last post got. It was almost inevitable.

Father Siluan:

I do not know Fr Alexander, but reading his posts over the last six months I have found him to be a well-written and articulate writer. As to the wording of this particular post...perhaps he did not word things well in this case, but I can understand his reaction. You and quite a few others have been spewing venom against ROCOR for a very long time now and you expect us take it "on the chin like a man" without complaint or comment. Now ROCIE is experiencing all the problems that many have predicted from the very beginning. Yet rather than "taking it on the chin" as you have required of ROCOR.....you become offended that the problem has been brought into the open.

I do not apologize for his comments and as to my comments to you I stand by them and I would also say them to Fr Alexander as well. To any priest as a matter of fact.

Priests are servants of God, many of whom have choosen to play in politics and to mess with people's souls. Sometimes someone small like me needs to remind priests where their true duty lies, it does not however mean that they will listen.

Katya

[spiridon]

I somewhat agree, many jurisdictions have been harshly accusing one another for some time now of medling in affairs of Ecumanism and plots to join forces with "Soviet Kgb ? " ...I pray that those who are struggling at this time either with Metropolitan Vitaly or with another Bishop or with something else, that you/us will be comforted and protected by The Theotokos and led back to a simple way of life helping others who might not have it as easy as we do...we must pray for them and you must pray for us , and remind ourselves that we are Brothers and sisters in CHRIST...
Remember that along the Salvific path , it is quite Straight (jurisdictions dont even make it to this platform) and so,so narrow , and as humans we are wired to fall for various reasons and stumbling blocks, but we must not abandoned each other, we must pick each other up while we can and if a swift kick in the butt is needed, we do that too, but we do it with love and hate towards the evil one, and not GODS CREATION- cause after we perish, no one can help...
God Help us all