What to do about Islamic Expansion in US?

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OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Brenden,

Your post would be better read with some background music...
http://www.anesi.com/east/horstw.htm

:) Just kidding

While I believe your thoughts on Islam is right on (it is a religion of conquest), I don't a hundred year prediction can be made. It is just as likely in the near future China will throw open its doors and we will see a flood from that country.

The only thing that is for sure, as it was predicted by Christ Himself, is that real Christianity is destined for [EDIT: near] extinction, and it is almost there already.

Last edited by OrthodoxyOrDeath on Thu 16 September 2004 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hexapsalms
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Joined: Thu 16 September 2004 10:24 am

Post by Hexapsalms »

The Christian world is in danger, but mostly from weakness from within, from bad theology, lukewarm Christianity, lack of spirit, etc.

Immigration is not a spiritual problem. Christianity would never have spread if the Christians had stayed in Palestine, becoming only another sect of Judaism.

Unrestrained immigration that you speak of is a cultural and political problem. Most countries have immigration imits; but our limits have fallen to pieces and then there's those long, almost unprotected borders north and south of us. We've had waves of immigration before. What in the past had helped to assimilate and unite into one nation the various peoples that came here? It was the secular democratic ideals that were taught in the schools almost religiously, not religion per se. The schools were the main medium of assimilation, but now they're not. What Christianity was hinted at in the public schools (that I can remember) was a very wishy-washy thing. Now the real problem is nothing of our culture, secular or religious, is taught at all in the schools. We've let it happen because we're confused about what we are. So it's a free for all--everyone is rushing to establish his own culture. We have no community anymore as a result.

I don't like to see America dissolve anymore than you do, but it's dissolving on many fronts. Which problem do we start with first to try and fix?

God said: Judgement begins at the house of God. We need to get ourselves right with God. Our safety is in The Church which is the ark through this dissolving world.

George
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Location: New Zealand

Post by George »

Dear George (in Australia),
Yes, I think NZ and Australia have had quite different experiences as regards immigration and multiculturism. Certainly Australia has had people coming from many different places for much longer - here it is really quite a recent phenomenom to have people coming from all over the world in substantial numbers. Most of course settle in Auckland, which is a very different place (and much more interesting) than what it was even 10 years ago, but outside of Auckland, most of NZ is still predominantly Maori and pakeha. NZ tries very hard to be bicultural, but of course there is a still a way to go with that, and now we will be multicultural as well! In some ways it is quite exciting. It is quite a cliche to talk about a Global village, but it is true, and what a wonderful opportunity we have these days to be able to travel all over the world and to live among people from other places - so much we can learn about tolerance and love for others if we humble ourselves. Part of our National Anthem goes: "Men of every creed and race, gather here before Thy face, asking Thee to bless this place: God defend our free land." This was written in the 1800s long before there was the sort of immigration we have these days and yet so applicable for now.

Brendan, East-Asian type Chinese are not the only 'race' (for want of a better word) in China - they are the dominant people, but there are many ethnic minorities in China, including Muslims in the western part - it is a huge country. Most countries have a blend of people. Look at England even (not modern day but historical) - Celts, Picts, Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Normans....
However your concern is that people come and leech off the system. That happens anywhere, and it is not just foreigners that take advantage. The onus is on the Government to tighten regulations as to who is eligible to receive the dole or whatever other Welfare payments are available. For example in Japan, you can only get the dole for a certain number of months, and that's it. It is stopped after that. I find that is harsh - sometimes it is not so easy to get a job. In this country to get the dole you have to be actively searching for work. Of course that is open to abuse too, but each person getting the dole has a case worker to help them gain employment. In the old days you got it regardless, so it is a better system now.

I don't know whether muslims will 'take over' Europe. (I think it was hexapsalm who touched on this). Did not Jesus say when He returns will He even find faith on Earth? When He returns maybe true believers will be few and far between. What is important is that we hold our faith, and try to live as true and faithful Orthodox Christians, and maybe if we can even fulfil the tiniest fraction of what we are called to do, our faith might help others come to the Orthodox Church.
George

brendan

Post by brendan »

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:

Brenden,

Your post would be better read with some background music...
http://www.anesi.com/east/horstw.htm

:) Just kidding

No offense, but I'm not laughing.

The only thing that is for sure, as it was predicted by Christ Himself, is that real Christianity is destined for [EDIT: near] extinction, and it is almost there already.

I figure this can happen two ways: either God can make it so, in which case there's nothing we can do about it, or we allow it to happen out of apathy or foolishness. In either case, we shouldn't welcome this catastrophe, let alone attempt to hasten the end.

brendan

Post by brendan »

Hexapsalms wrote:

The Christian world is in danger, but mostly from weakness from within, from bad theology, lukewarm Christianity, lack of spirit, etc.

Yes, I agree. I think the overall issue is that we no longer believe we are right and seem always preoccupied with what other people may think. Christians are almost afraid to be assertive and think that being a Christian means being passive in the face of threats. I even had a member of my own parish say that our only obligation in spreading the word is to keep the doors of the church open. I advocated going door-to-door in an attempt to recruit some new members or get old members to come back. People don't seem to be interested in such efforts. I just can't stand the parish just barely hanging on without any effort to save it. And I'm not talking about bringing in large numbers. We have a small parish. Even gaining just ten new members would be a dramatic improvement.

I'm about ready to purchase Orthodox literature with my own money and go door-to-door myself even if nobody else is interested. If nothing comes of it, then nothing has been lost. Maybe it doesn't fit some folk's idea of a proper Orthodox attitude, but I'm just not the kind of person who can sit by and do nothing. If I don't like something, I want to do something about it.

I always remember an old saying: "Only a dead fish goes with the flow." I don't know where that saying originated, but there's a lot of truth in it.

Hexapsalms
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Posts: 52
Joined: Thu 16 September 2004 10:24 am

Post by Hexapsalms »

Brendan--

Your desire to go door to door to spread the Gospel is a worthy one and may bear fruit. But if I may speak from my experience and give a bit of advice, it is best to go about this work with a right spirit--that is--do this for the Love of Christ, not out of fear of the ways things are going.

I once zealously passed out tracts and did aggressive evangelistic work not because I loved Christ (I barely understood Christianity at the time); I did it because I was afraid of the way the world was going and I wanted to do my bit to stop the slide. I passed out tracts and books to convert folks to a certain party line, and got impatience, even mad, if they didn't see it my way. Don't treat Christianity like another ideology competing with other ideologies. This is what the Protestants do--they hand out tracts and books by the millions, broadcast 24/7 by radio and TV and yet it seems all that has made very little impact on the problems of our society.

You must do this with the right spirit or you will surely end up exhausted and disappointed and wondering if God was behind you at all. My advice to you is to keep asking Christ to remove the fears you have, ask Him to show you how He is in control of every situation, especially in those situations that look hopeless, ask Him to demonstrate to you His love so that this will be what you impact to your listeners.

I know some muslims (who are decent, hard-working people) who are very tired of and discouraged by their religion but are afraid to move out of it because the mosque here threatens them with Mafia-like tactics. Their idea of God is that He's an entity very far away, they cannot feel any love from Him because of the distance. The workings of God's will are only the workings of pagan-like fate. If a Christian would show Christ's love to them, that may go a long ways.

The hardest task for us, though, is to show Christ's love. That takes real work. After my disasterous evangelistic effort, I discovered that I knew very little about what the good news of the Gospel was all about, and what I had spread instead was just my fear. In the end, I had to ask God's forgiveness for that.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Amen.

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