Appeal of the First Heirarch of the ROAC to ROCOR(L)

[CGW]

Why then did they not correct the calendar according to the scientific data available in the twentieth century?

That has indeed been suggested; if the Aleppo solution had been implemented in 2000, we would all be on the same calendar now. But we aren't, because (unsurprisingly) various Eastern churches balked.

The sixteenth century gave birth to four great beasts: the heresy of Luther, the heresy of Calvin, the heresy of the Jesuits, and the heresy of the new calendar.

The problem with this statement is that it is uncanonical. The counciliar canons present the calendar as a matter of discipline. That is also how the Council of Whitby addressed the issue. Calling it a matter of heresy is simply and flatly incorrect.

The point should be clear by now: these "heresies" so far have proven to be nothing of the kind. They have instead stood as points of intentional division, or to put it less neutrally, intentional schism.

[Makis]

Dear OOD,

Re: Freemasonry. Many people don't understand that in Greece, the "priesthood" in the State Church is often a good career choice. When you are a farmer or some villager who cannot make a livable salary, becoming a priest has always been a good choice to make a decent salary. Maintaining, living, and preaching the faith was always guarded by the people, not necessarily the "hired hands" for the "priesthood".

Sorry, my good man, but when have you been in Greece for the last time?

A good friend of mine was recently ordained, and receives a salary of 4-500 euro/month (in us dollars something like 480-600).
Doesn't seem like a good financial choise, now does it?

Other example, my spiritual father.
He gets about 750 euro (+/- 900 usd). married, 4 children and working day and night.
Real decent salary, huh?

Think before you write. Don't let your dislike for us "apostate world Orthodox" make you write incorrect information.

In Christ,

Makis

[canonical]

Al,

Please see the heretic Bartholomew and his predessor's much loved and proudly hosted encyclical of 1920 for your "grassy knoll conspiracy theory".

***I'm not qualified to declare anyone a heretic, and I don't subscribe to holding the son accountable for the sins of the father. If such judgmentalism is a character trait of the Orthodox Church, as it is in the RCC, then we are in deep doo-doo.

Very well. The Church, however, is certainly not concerned with the astronomical accuracy of the calendar, but only with the liturgical and festal union and order of the local churches. Even so, let us suppose that those people truly labored on behalf of scientific accuracy.

Why then did they not correct the calendar according to the scientific data available in the twentieth century? Rather, they implemented an equally inaccurate calendar dating from the sixteenth century, the calendar of Pope Gregory. Why did they not implement the one which had carefully been computed and which was submitted to the so-called Pan-Orthodox meeting of Constantinople in 1923? Simply because the real reason was not a scientific correction of the calendar, which would have been a completely useless undertaking from an ecclesiastical point of view. The real purpose of the calendar change was to effect a festal union of the "churches," which could be actualized only with the Orthodox adoption of the Gregorian calendar of the Papists and Protestants, so that all would have the same festal calendar, and so that the first stage of Ecumenism "the union of the so-called Christian Churches" could begin, as stated in the Encylclical of 1920.

***It's time for The Church as a whole to get on wioth saving souls and stop worrying about what happened in 1920. I see no spiritual value in getting hung up on nit-picky little things. but that's just me. I acknowlecdge the right of anyone to pic apart the Holy church for whatever reason pleases them.

The sixteenth century gave birth to four great beasts: the heresy of Luther, the heresy of Calvin, the heresy of the Jesuits, and the heresy of the new calendar. The heresies of Luther and Calvin were refuted by [such and such] . . . As for the heresy of the new calendar, this was condemned by a decision of the great Ecumenical Council that met in Constantinople in 1593. [Confession of the Orthodox Faith, p. 4 Dositheus, Patriarch of Jerusalem]

***The "beasts" and other such things sounds far too protestant fundamentalist for my taste. Next thing we'll be talking about "666." (Thrice Holy <G><G><G>)

What was you r definition of "canonical" anyway?

***I don't have one. I follow the example of my Church which lists on its web site the 20 autonomous and autocephalous Orthodox Churches that are canonical and which share the Communion Cup. There is one addition to that list on my web site: ROCOR which shares the Communion Cup with the Jerusalem and Serbian churches and which, I pray, will soon enjoy full reunion with the Holy Mother Church of Russia.

Al, the Irish Convert

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Al,

The "beasts" and other such things sounds far too protestant fundamentalist for my taste. Next thing we'll be talking about "666."

I'm sorry if this Orthodox Patriarch sounds too Protestant to you.

I acknowlecdge the right of anyone to pic apart the Holy church for whatever reason pleases them.

But you do have a problem with people trying to keep things the way they have always been? Amazing!

The pagan never hated the Orthodox Christian as much as the "Christian" world does today. Formal tolerance is deceptive. The world tolerates only those so-called Christians who walk in step with it, those who try to apply a social Christianity and attempt to be always up-to-date. The others who do not agree to adulterate their Faith it hates. But the world’s hate is a criterion for us to know if we are true Christians. "If they have hated Me, they shall hate you too".

Also: So you have a list of "canonical" churches yet you don't even know what the word "canonical" means? At least they are not LDS "churches" I suppose.

I don't believe any further conversation would be useful with such thinking as this. Many people "convert" in name only, how can I have this discussion with someone who is really a form of Latin-Protestant?

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Makis,

They should come to America where they make $125,000/year!

I havn't been to Greece in 2 years. It is not nearly as costly to live in teh villages as it is in Athens as you know. And things have changed dramatically in the last 10-20 years with regard to the cost of living and salaries.

Again, the priesthood is a good career choice for some people, just like the Army is here - you won't get rich for sure, but it is a gauranteed home.

My cousin is the priest in Ayios Sofia near Tripoli (State Church). He farms honey and bottles water, he has an olive grove. He wakes up in the morning, walks out the back door, and picks some walnuts or something. Sounds pretty nice.

[canonical]

You folks bandy about the word "heretic" with wild abandon. I suggest we all sit back and read "The True Nature of Heresy" by Archbishop Chrysostomos of Etna, found on a very traditional Orthodox web site:

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/truenather.htm

(Unless, of coufrse, we find the archbishop's work as "heretical"!!!!! <G>

Al

[CGW]

The pagan never hated the Orthodox Christian as much as the "Christian" world does today. Formal tolerance is deceptive. The world tolerates only those so-called Christians who walk in step with it, those who try to apply a social Christianity and attempt to be always up-to-date. The others who do not agree to adulterate their Faith it hates. But the world’s hate is a criterion for us to know if we are true Christians. "If they have hated Me, they shall hate you too".

I am unfamiliar with the exact location of this quote in the gospels. Could you enlighten me?

At any rate, I believe that you are quite wrong here. The world sees Orthodoxy as a bunch of more or less ethnicly colored sects that are fond of squabbling but really are all pretty much the same-- and aren't otherwise all that different from a bunch of squabbling Protestant sects, or for that matter, Hindus and Moslems fighting over various slights and insults.