Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

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Re: shameless falsehood by Fr. Joseph

Post by Suaidan »

priest_Steven wrote:

Me: What a shameless bunch of uninformed falsehood you churn out in an attempt to change the subject. Herein lies te root of your problem.

I can admit a mistake. But you can't, sir.

You must not have been watching too closely Fr. Deacon because it was + Agafangel HIMSELF almost two years ago who ordained me! Our St. Pete Church needed a deacon and they asked me to take upon this responsibility.

Apologies. So exactly how long were you with him after your ordination by his hand?

Me: I am not aware of any other moderator that Seraphim. It is his list.

Seraphim mentioned it himself on Paradosis.

Me: I don't seek to moderate you but when you move forward with shamelessly false information about my ordination this will not stand.

NOW who's diverting, sir? You have been demanding of me to put up your, Fr Ambrose's, and Fr Aidan's worthless slanders on NFTU. I am not sure how clear I have to be. Unless I am violating a guideline here, you have no power to determine what I say. You can "seek" to moderate me all you want. On Paradosis, the quiet hands behind the scene would listen. I can't say the same here.

Me: I am in complete "control" over my posts as long as I follow the rules here. As it should be. You are the one who seems quite worked up, insulting my clerical status. If my disgust at the way NFTU BLATANTLY covers up TOC news at the request of their heirarchs (you just admitted to this)

I didn't admit to that at all. I admitted reporting, but discussing potentially controversial issues with those involved. It's sort of how Interfax-Religion works with the Kremlin. Or how the Moscow Patriarchate site works with the Kremlin.

Me: Frankly, you build many of false assumptions based on such incorrect observations. This shows up on NFTU and you now parade your ignorance here for all to see.

Surely I mislabelled you. You were not an ambitious convert from traditional Orthodoxy. You were a traitor to it. My apologies.

Me: It should make sense to you. Your own Metropolitan petitioned the MP and long list of other so-called "world orthodox" Churches yet you commemorate him as your Master. Behold your own contradiction. You are just full of inconsistencies and contradictions. According to your working ecclesiastical practice it is perfectly fine to have as your master one who thinks otherwise about where the Church is.

With all due respect, now you are speaking from a position of massive ignorance. Not only have I written about the "petitions" (which were not simple petitions) and put it in the Milan Synod's histories, most of the versions of history given by Fr Ambrose and Fr Aidan are only superficially correct and in some places flatly wrong. I have, many times, openly stated that I considered that to be a mistake on our part. Many, many times.

That hasn't stopped you and your ilk from pretending that we are hiding from the facts of the past. We are not your church, disguising historical positions, et cetera, to justify going into communion with men with blood on their hands. We've been open, and that's enough to let it go. Your insistence to talk about 8-year old failed discussions indicates more than a desire for historical clarification.

You're an undisguised partisan who defended the ecumenical positions of Anthony of Geneva and others, switching back and forth from "the historical position of ROCOR" to your own so you can cook up your own Sergianist, ecumenist stew.

Forgive me if I pass on a bowl.

P.S. In case you missed it-- I have noted I was in error concerning who ordained you. I made a mistake. Metropolitans can also make mistakes. Both the letter that started this discussion and your propaganda for enemies of the Church are proof.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Re: shameless falsehood by Fr. Joseph

Post by priest_Steven »

Dear deacon Joseph (the list rules do demand that we respect clerical status, right?),

Your apology concerning your published falsehood about my ordination is accepted. God forgives so I forgive!

Let's get back to the subject matter about how NFTU handles news and the hierarch who
is the subject of our discussion.

You said some interesting things during these posts.

You: NFTU has ignored other TOC news items as well, from other jurisdictions, by request from hierarchs and clergy who felt people would be needlessly hurt. Are you saying I can't grant that to my own Church? Give me a break.

Me: I pointed out that this statement above amounts to admitting you cover up TOC news items. I say this because you plainly admit to ignoring TOC news items that otherwise might get reported BY REQUEST from hierarchs and clergy. Of course when you report your items somebody on the other end potentially "gets hurt". Apparently some you don't mind hurting and some you do. As such you don't really cover ecumenism (Milan for instance) or TOC news fairly. Only that which suits your agenda or that of others you approve of.

You said: I didn't admit to that at all. I admitted reporting, but discussing potentially controversial issues with those involved.

Me: You just admitted to ignoring TOC news at the request of hierarchs and and clergy. That not reporting that's cherry picking and cover-up. Reporting is when you report ALL the stories which come your way in context to those subjects you claim are your specialty.

You: It's sort of how Interfax-Religion works with the Kremlin. Or how the Moscow Patriarchate site works with the Kremlin.

Me: So if this is how you operate why are you so hard on KGB? Are you giving me a compliment when you call me "Checka"??

In closing I think it would advance the topic if we examined which of the statements Fr. Aiden and Fr. Ambrose reported about the long journey of Milan's shopping around for acceptance into "world orthodoxy" are accurate and which ones are not.

I'll post these and if you are in the mood you can address them in your opinion.

  • Fr. S
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Ephrem »

I hope all the True Orthodox who are following this discussion will be sober minded. No matter what your opinion of Milan, everyone who has eyes to see, let them see. Steven and Ambrose are not zealous for the Orthodox faith, nor for purity of its confession! They are, rather, blinded by pernicious heresy. This is less an attack on Milan, and more an attack on the image of True Orthodoxy as a whole.
You will notice, that like all heretics of sorry memory, they speak in outright deception. What business do they have coming here, if not to deceive, if it were possible, even the very elect of Christ? They speak as if they were concerned about the alleged "ecumenism" of Milan. Yet they are only cursing themselves with their own words, for they belong to the "Church of Laodicea", the Lavrite para-synagogue, whom the Lord will spit out of His Mouth if they do not repent.
See that you are "poor, blind, and naked"(apoc 3:17-18). Beware, repent, and be humble before God and man, and the Lord will be quick to save you.
May God save you and bless you and illumine you with the light of awareness, and may He have mercy on all of us.

Last edited by Ephrem on Mon 11 October 2010 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: shameless falsehood by Fr. Steven

Post by Suaidan »

priest_Steven wrote:

Dear deacon Joseph (the list rules do demand that we respect clerical status, right?),

Your apology concerning your published falsehood about my ordination is accepted. God forgives so I forgive!

My published error. I am not in the business of publishing falsehood, which just drives ecumenists nuts!

Let's get back to the subject matter about how NFTU handles news and the hierarch who
is the subject of our discussion.
You said some interesting things during these posts.
Me: I pointed out that this statement above amounts to admitting you cover up TOC news items. I say this because you plainly admit to ignoring TOC news items that otherwise might get reported BY REQUEST from hierarchs and clergy.

Once again, I personally do not publish certain information I learn. This is true of all news sites to a degree. We take into consideration whether this would be useful to our readership, whether it qualifies as news, whether it can be blown out of proportion, et cetera.

Of course when you report your items somebody on the other end potentially "gets hurt". Apparently some you don't mind hurting and some you do. As such you don't really cover ecumenism (Milan for instance) or TOC news fairly. Only that which suits your agenda or that of others you approve of.

You could make that accusation about all the media involved covering Orthodoxy, including your own. We all follow our own respective guidelines when dealing with the subjects of news. This is just basic knowledge. Just as a pro-MP site wouldn't interview True Orthodox Christians for their opinions of being put on a government hit-list, we don't sit here asking who we feel are those acting against the interest of Orthodoxy for their opinion. However, my site is borne out by experience. We have received positive feedback from different jurisdictions of Traditional Orthodoxy, often in competition with each other. That means we are doing something right. By contrast, most of the "world Orthodox" feedback is negative because they will often cover up stories we won't. That also means we are doing something right. We try to operate with fairness and consistency of principle. Let me see if I can separate this out from Orthodoxy altogether. Do you really think Mormon news websites take into account the opinions of the Jehovah's Witnesses when reporting on same? No, because they are not accountable to them. Just as we are not accountable to World Orthodoxy.

Me: You just admitted to ignoring TOC news at the request of hierarchs and and clergy. That not reporting that's cherry picking and cover-up. Reporting is when you report ALL the stories which come your way in context to those subjects you claim are your specialty.

See above. If you don't like it, and think we do a poor job, we invite you: please, do a better one. No one is stopping you.

Me: So if this is how you operate why are you so hard on KGB? Are you giving me a compliment when you call me "Checka"??

Only an MP clergy could even wonder if "Cheka" was a compliment.

I'll post these and if you are in the mood you can address them in your opinion.

  • Fr. S

Sure, but I will say this; if you are going to spam the board with Paradosis messages, I doubt the moderation team will be pleased. I'm not them, but I think they do have a threshold of patience.

Last edited by Suaidan on Mon 11 October 2010 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

Ephrem wrote:

I hope all the True Orthodox who are following this discussion will be sober minded. No matter what your opinion of Milan, everyone who has eyes to see, let them see. Steven and Ambrose are not zealous for the Orthodox faith, nor for purity of its confession! They are, rather, blinded by pernicious heresy. This is less an attack on Milan, and more an attack on the image of True Orthodoxy as a whole.
You will notice, that like all heretics of sorry memory, they speak in outright deception. What business do they have coming here, if not to deceive, if it were possible, even the very elect of Christ? They speak as if they were concerned about the alleged "ecumenism" of Milan. Yet they are only cursing themselves with their own words, for they belong to the "Church of Laodicea", the Lavrite para-synagogue, whom the Lord will spit out of His Mouth if they do not repent.
See that you are "poor, blind, and naked"(apoc 3:17-18). Beware, repent, and be humble before God and man, and the Lord will be quick to save you.
May God save them and bless them and illumine them with the light of awareness, and may He have mercy on all of us.

+1

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Hieromonk Ambrose »

Suaiden wrote:

As far as I can see, we've had exactly two active clerics leave in a year: Fr Cuthbert (Pierce)..... and Fr Elia.

\When did Igumen Sergei Armstone leave Milan? He is now in the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad and in a parish with Fr Andrew Phillips.

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

Hieromonk Ambrose wrote:
Suaiden wrote:

As far as I can see, we've had exactly two active clerics leave in a year: Fr Cuthbert (Pierce)..... and Fr Elia.

\When did Igumen Sergei Armstone leave Milan? He is now in the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad and in a parish with Fr Andrew Phillips.

Not sure, but I was pretty sure it was over a year ago.

Same with Fr Aidan. You can't say he left Milan in 2005 and 2008 because that's when he joined the MP. When they left versus when they joined a parasynagogue produces two different dates.

I find it funny that you seem to be very focused on when one or two clergy left Milan, as opposed to a full-blown schism of dozens of clergy who refused to join the Soviet Patriarchate. And I forgot! That was just 2007!

Of course, we've already had that discussion on OrthodoxWest, and I would hate for us to have to debate how many clergy there were.

And aren't you supposed to be busy with that Facebook petition to get your "daughter in Christ", Vassula Ryden, out of the Alexandrian Patriarchate, so that they and the Monophysites they commune with will have a pure confession of faith?

Last edited by Suaidan on Mon 11 October 2010 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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