Old Calendar Ecumenism?

[Cyprian]

Perhaps "the truth" as in "we Jehovah's Witnesses believe we have the truth". You, sir, are not the arbiter of truth or discernment. Are you a Bishop? A Synod? Not as far as I can tell.

No, I am not a bishop, nor a synod. Which is precisely why, for years now, I have been supporting the truth I speak regarding the Cyprianite heresy by quoting holy Scripture, the sacred Canons, the fathers of the Church, the article penned by Bp. Gregory Grabbe, the ROCOR Anathema of 1983 (which you apparently fail to see condemns Cyprianism), the resolution of the synod headed by Met. Vitaly in 2001 which officially condemned Cyprianism and terminated communion with his group http://www.russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com/rescyp.html , and more recently the ROAC Sobor of 2008. Notwithstanding that people claim that the RTOC has also condemned Cyprianism in recent times, (my multiple requests for a simple link to a document demonstrating this has been to no avail), and also of course synods in Greece have condemned Cyprian and his novel teachings as well.

Are you a bishop? Are you a synod? Come now, and let us reason together. Bring forth your witnesses. Let's see your defense of Cyprianism.

And why should we assume your judgment is correct? We don't even know who you are.

Pity. All caught up with notions of peoples, places, names, dates, and faces, and not grounded in the dogmas of the Church. You may not know who I am, but you do know about the Anathema of 1983, now don't you? Certainly you know who Bp. Gregory Grabbe was, the chancellor of ROCOR for all those decades. Certainly you know of the condemnation of Cyprianism by the clergy with Met. Vitaly in 2001. If you don't, I linked to it above. Certainly you know all about the ROAC, who condemned Cyprianism in the bishops Sobor, since you used to be with them. You understand Russian, so you shouldn't have any trouble locating for me the condemnation of Cyprianism by the RTOC recently.

The truth of the matter is, there are plenty of synods and clergy whom you do know that have condemned Cyprianism, and yet you pretend as if I am alone in my determination, as if I just hatched all this up in my head, apart from the Church. You are blinded by your self-serving ambition, and I knew this before we ever got into this engagement, and that is why I knew that I would not convince you of anything. Only your own conscience can convict you at this point.

If we cannot ascertain that you are a part of the Church, or even a friend of the Church, yet you sow dissension and argument between those trying to stand for Orthodox tradition each demonizing the other, then I have no reason to believe you are anything but an enemy of the Church and of Christ. For all we know, you could just be some Papist, laughing with your Papist friends, saying "look, I can make the schismatics fight".

Take a look at yourself in the mirror. The ROAC, (and apparently, although I have not seen it, the RTOC), have condemned the teaching of Cyprianism. Those who chose to flee with Met. Vitaly condemned and extricated themselves from Cyprianism in 2001. Certain synods styling themselves as the GOC of Greece have also condemned his teaching as unorthodox as well.

The choice is yours. Recall, Fr. Mark said that heresy entails a choice. Do not be like the Israelites who limped on both legs, trying to serve baal and the Lord God at the same time. Either choose to follow Cyprianism, and prepare your apology for us, or join with the ROCOR Sobor of 1983, Bp. Gregory Grabbe, the ROAC, the RTOC, ROCOR-V, so-called Kiousites and Matthewites, etc. in following the Church's dogmatic teaching on this matter.

Do not be deceived, pretending that you can consider all these groups to be fellow true Orthodox with you, when you and your synod believe something totally opposite to what they have openly anathematized. If you condemn me for condemning Cyprianism, condemn all them too, and stop pretending like you are all part of the same Church.

Crypto-ecumenism (Cyprianism) is infecting the ranks of many old-calendarists.

Because this more than anything is peace, when the diseased is cut off, when the mutinous is removed. For thus it is possible for Heaven to be united to earth. Since the physician too in this way preserves the rest of the body, when he amputates the incurable part; and the general, when he has brought to a separation them that were agreed in mischief. Thus it came to pass also in the case of that famous tower; for their evil peace was ended by their good discord, and peace made thereby. Thus Paul also divided them that were conspiring against him. And in Naboth's case that agreement was at the same time more grievous than any war. For concord is not in every case a good thing, since even robbers agree together. (St. Chrysostom)

[Suaidan]

No, I am not a bishop, nor a synod. Which is precisely why, for years now, I have been supporting the truth I speak regarding the Cyprianite heresy by quoting holy Scripture, the sacred Canons, the fathers of the Church....

Pity. All caught up with notions of peoples, places, names, dates, and faces, and not grounded in the dogmas of the Church. You may not know who I am, but you do know about the Anathema of 1983, now don't you? Certainly you know who Bp. Gregory Grabbe was, the chancellor of ROCOR for all those decades. Certainly you know of the condemnation of Cyprianism by the clergy with Met. Vitaly in 2001.

I do know who all those people are. I don't know who you are. It's a simple question and you are dancing around it. Your arrogance is reaching its apex. Absolutely dastardly of you.

Take a look at yourself in the mirror.

I have. I do daily. I know who I am. We don't know who you are. But I know a self-serving poseur (or a false identity to an existing person, who happens to act like a self-serving poseur) when I read one.

Don't try to pretend it's "about the issues" when you feel like it.

You want to accuse people's souls and call others cowards, have the dignity to speak with a real identity.

Otherwise, you're just some Papist fake in my book, no matter how many other people's posts and writings you cough up.

[Mark Templet]

Dear Cyprian,

Dear Fr. Mark,

Who exactly do you mean by "the rest of us"? There is more to confessing Orthodoxy than just a condemnation of new-calendarist ecumenists. Orthodox Christians must anathematize all heresies, not only a single one, and accept the whole of tradition, not only a part. The Kyprianites and certain other old-calendar groups need to abandon all their heresies before the genuine Orthodox Christians should enter into communion with them.

I totally agree with you. I am not speaking here about entering into communion with one another. I mean that as a first step toward all the actions that could lead to communion is for everyone to first anathematize the WO. I find that to be the major hurdle to moving forward on a whole host of things. I am quite unfamiliar with the ins and outs of what has happened with the Greek jurisdictions, but my familiarity with the Russian ones indicates to me that if this was a first step it would pave the way for ROAC, RTOC, ROCOR(V), and ROCOR(A) to begin coming together and talking out our differences. Then it becomes a much more practical matter to reunite having removed such a huge ecclesiastical matter first.