1054 Schism and Intercommunion

[Evfimy]

How I wish I could speak with you face to face and at this very moment the Enemy is gleeful at the prospect of someone losing the battle. Please listen to our Saints about this very subject:

You have been brainwashed by extreme schismatics for centuries. I have listened to the saints: Theodore the Studite, Maximos the confessor, Leo the Great "the pillar of Orthodoxy," etc, and they do not support your position. Orthodoxy is a nationalistic/phyletistic religion. They put their own ethnic nation above the unity of the Church. They do not love the unity of the Church. And they do not love and respect the God-ordained authorities Christ gave us for the unity of the Church.

Will the Heterodox be Saved?
by Archimandrite (Metropolitan) Philaret, of blessed memory +1985

...* They have been born and raised and are living according to the creed which they have inherited, just as do the majority of you who are Orthodox; in their lives there has not been a moment of personal and conscious renunciation of Orthodoxy. The Lord, "Who will have all men to be saved" (I Tim. 2:4) and "Who enlightens every man born into the world" (Jn. 1.43), undoubtedly is leading them also towards salvation In His own way.

With reference to the above question, it is particularly instructive to recall the answer once given to an inquirer by the Blessed Theophan the Recluse. The blessed one replied more or less thus: "You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."We believe the foregoing answer by the saintly ascetic to be the best that can be given in this matter.

• The Greek word for "heresy" is derived from the word for "choice" and hence inherently implies conscious, willful rejection or opposition to the Divine Truth manifest in the Orthodox Church.
  From Orthodox Life, Vol. 34, No. 6 (Nov.-Dec., 1984), pp. 33-36.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/m ... rodox.aspx

I'm not even going to read Philaret. His opinions mean nothing to me. He was an extreme schismatic and had absoultely no authority to say who will and will not be saved. He did not have primacy over other bishops, was not even a patriarch, nor were his teaching ever ratified by ecumenical councils or the supreme apostolic see at Rome. Philaret did not have the authority of the keys (Matt.16:18-19).

[joasia]

Kosmas,

* The Greek word for "heresy" is derived from the word for "choice" and hence inherently implies conscious, willful rejection or opposition to the Divine Truth manifest in the Orthodox Church.

Very good point. A friend of mine said it very simply, but it reminded me of what the saints have taught. A person who turns away from the dependency on God, with his free will is putting trust in his own judgement and for that he will be judged by God. Adam is the perfect example and actually should be the archetype for this exact issue.

Would a person who is sick, trust his own diagnosis or seek professional medical care? Would a person whose car needs repair, try to do it himself or go to someone who is trained in the subject.

These examples can be applied to everything in this corrupt world. But, when it comes to God, so many people think they have the knowledge of God. Let them face the Personal Judgement and then say that.

Such arrogance is deplorable in God's eyes. The two thieves on the Crosses are another example.

[Cyprian]

There is nothing wrong with Constantine pointing out that Judas the betrayer wrought miracles. I have on more than one occasion read holy fathers who testify to Judas Iscariot working signs.

Furthermore, if all the other Apostles were working signs and wonders, with the exception of Judas alone, it would have been obvious to them who was the betrayer. But it was not obvious to the Apostles because he wrought signs along with them as well.

St. Jerome

Against Jovinianus, Book II

An evil tree does not bear good fruit, nor a good tree evil fruit. If this be so, tell me how it was that Paul though he was an evil tree and persecuted the Church of Christ, afterwards bore good fruit? And Judas, though he was a good tree and wrought miracles like the other Apostles, afterwards turned traitor and brought forth evil fruit? The truth is that a good tree does not bear evil fruit, nor an evil tree good fruit, so long as they continue in their goodness, or badness.

St. Gregory the Great

Epistles - Book VIII
Letter XXXV

To Leontius, Ex-Consul

For so Judas, mixed with the apostles, long preached the Redeemer of the human race, and did signs with the rest; but, because he had been a citizen of Babylon, he executed his work as task-work for the heavenly Jerusalem.

[Evfimy]

"The Greek word for "heresy" is derived from the word for "choice" and hence inherently implies conscious, willful rejection or opposition to the Divine Truth manifest in the Orthodox Church."

Such a scenario is non-existant. No one who knew the truth, would willingly turn against it.

[joasia]

Such a scenario is non-existant. No one who knew the truth, would willingly turn against it.

HA!

[Cyprian]

Here is another.

St. John Chrysostom

Homily XXIV On the Gospel According to St. Matthew

"What then," saith one, "did they perform such things while working iniquity?" Some indeed say that it was not at the time when they did these miracles that they also committed iniquity, but that they changed afterwards, and wrought their iniquity. But if this be so, a second time the point at which He is laboring fails to be established. For what He took pains to point out is this, that neither faith nor miracles avail where practise is not: to which effect Paul also said, "Though I have faith, so that I could remove mountains, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing." "Who then are these men?" you ask. Many of them that believed received gifts such as He that was casting out devils, and was not with Him; such as Judas; for even he too, wicked as he was, had a gift. And in the Old Testament also this may be found, in that grace hath oftentimes wrought upon unworthy persons, that it might do good to others.

[Helen]

grace hath oftentimes wrought upon unworthy persons, that it might do good to others.

A good point to consider.