Official OCA position

bogoliubtsy · Post by **bogoliubtsy** » Mon 14 July 2003 9:51 am

That's awful.
A couple of years ago, Cardinal Law gave a homily on Pascha at a GOA cathedral down the road from my house. It's difficult to not be discouraged or just appaled by these things. It seems these people mean well, but just don't get it.

bogoliubtsy · Post by **bogoliubtsy** » Mon 14 July 2003 9:56 am

Anastasios,
Did you happen to inform the bishop of these priests?

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Mon 14 July 2003 11:00 am

Peter, Methodius, et al.,

Indeed, there are sometimes people like Saint Maximos. However, Orthodox theology 101 is purification = better spiritual discernment. The more your nous is cleansed, the better you are at discern right from wrong, fact from fiction, truth from untruth, proper course from dangerous course. Who here has attained to the same level of purification as St. Maximos? In Orthodox epistemological/gnosiological thought, long trials of purification and healing of the nous (mind, soul, heart... all of it) is required to acquire deep spiritual understanding. This is not to say that we cannot take the examples of saints and base our actions on them--only that we must be wary, and must have guidance as we do this, not thinking our own judgment sufficient.

Sometimes we are to imitate the saints--but not always. Just as we are sometimes to imitate Christ--but not always. Their deeds are often good to follow, but not for everyone, and not in all times. Do we condemn entire cities as Christ did? or make a whip and go into a Benny Hinn conference and chase people out for polluting the temple of people's souls? Though we can learn for everything Christ and the saints did, we cannot all, all the time, imitate them. Who among us would rebuke Saint Peter--someone so holy his mere shadow healed people--to his face? It takes extreme holiness to get some things done, and this idea that we can all go off on our own and make wise decisions is exactly why the Fathers voice caution in such matters. How can spiritual babies decide when it's safe to cross a busy highway? How can spiritual children so eagerly go off to war with the greatest enemy of all? And why do we spiritual children rebel and throw a temper tantrum when our fathers so wisely tell us "you are not ready, you must grow up [in the faith] first"?

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Mon 14 July 2003 11:07 am

My last post does not necessarily speak to everyone on the forum--I'm sure there are a number of spiritually mature people on the forum. For these people, I ask you to please, in your maturity, forgive me for my youthful zeal and inarticulate words.

Julianna · Post by **Julianna** » Thu 17 July 2003 8:20 am

Thank's for pointing out the OCA's heresy Nektarios It must've been hard for a World Orthodoxy member to do

Methodius · Post by **Methodius** » Tue 12 August 2003 9:29 pm

Fr. George Gregory, in the official Greek Archdiocesan publication Orthodox Observer (June 30, 1982) gives the following statement:

“Q: Does the Orthodox Church recognize the validity of non-Orthodox Baptism?

A: Yes. We follow the example and maintain the practice of the ancient Church on recognizing the validity of the baptism of the heretics and schismatics. However, these baptisms, to be regarded as valid, must have been celebrated in the name of the Holy Trinity and must have involved the use of water.”

The Kiss of Judas: The Ecumenical Patriarchate

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Tue 12 August 2003 11:05 pm

What a ridiculous statement, meant to fool the majority of people who don't know any better - "ancient practice"!

to be regarded as valid, must have been celebrated in the name of the Holy Trinity and must have involved the use of water.”

Is this magic or a Mystery of the Church??? Quite simply, this is an ecclesiological heresy.

The Saint Euphrosynos Cafe

Official OCA position

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