1054 Schism and Intercommunion

[Evfimy]

Kosmos,

the reason Orthodox don't unite to Catholicism, is because the former are governed by pride, ignorance, arrogance, disobedience and nationalism. Orthodox are too feity to get along with anyone. They do not love the unity of the Church, and they despise the divine primacy of the apostolic see at Rome that Christ Himself established for the purpose of unity and the prevention of all the schims we have seen in the east during the past 1,000 years. Orthodox have no head, and they are too proud to submit to the teachings of the fathers and councils regarding patriarchal and papal primacy.

It's not about a love of the truth for Orthodox. It is about control, megalomania, disobedience power and pride. Historically, the Orthodox were those identified with the patriarchal sees.

Just because there are a few bad people in the Church, does not mean it is no longer the Church. Christ did not establish such a fallible institution.

[Evfimy]

The problem is not with Saint Ignatius but with yourself. Sain Ignatius's warning about sensations and feelings is confirmed by Saint John of the Ladder... and all the Fathers in general...

This is more reason why I need to leave Orthodoxy, because I followed these negative teachings too long and my psychological health has deteriorated over the years, because it's a "sin" to be happy in Orthodoxy. I was taught as an Orthodox Christian to repress all joyful and good thoughts, and to only focus on everything negative and depressing. This can lead to mental illness.

This is also part of the delusional thinking we see among contemporary Orthodox who think their leaders can do no wrong or make mistakes, and it is the same error Christ encountered with the religious leaders of His own day -- the pharisees. It's the mentality that the "leaders" can do no wrong. Ignatius was not infallible. He was a sinful man.

So you prefer a person to be depressed, gloomy, un-happy, negative, and despondent? Those aren't delusions, of course. Only good things are delusions, right?

I agree we need to avoid certain sensations. I am talking about what the New Testament calls fruits of the Holy Spirit:

JOY

PEACE

LOVE

FAITH, etc. [Gal.22-23].

Ignatius' teachings lead to an inevitable un-healthy state of mind where a person is not allowed to think positively, or be joyful about anything. If we followed his teaching to it's logical conclusion, it can lead to mental illness, and possibly sadistic psychopathy like Ignatius himself.

My psychological health is where it is today because I listened to people like you in Orthodoxy for too long. According to Ignatius and other "Orthodox" people, joy, happiness, peace, love, etc are all delusions and sins. God wants us to be miserable.

This is very spiritually and mentally un-healthy. It borders on cultic thought and mind control and is very dangerous.

I need to get out of here. I apologize if I have ever sinned against anyone here in anyway.

[Evfimy]

A Catholic sent me this response when I asked him about John Romanides.

"As for Romanides, he is an embarrassment to other Orthodox for his wild excesses and fanaticism, and in the words of one Anglican (Fr. Robert Hart) sympathetic to Eastern Orthodoxy, Romanides' attacks on "Western Legalism, Romanism, and Scholasticism are but perfect examples of Eastern bigotry...If ever there was an evil, warped, and hateful man, it was Romanides. He belonged in a padded cell."...

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Specialists in Eastern spirituality have noted that Catholic and Orthodox spirituality are basically identical in character (contrary to what you say) with both having access to the supernatural and divinizing graces stemming from the Holy Spirit and His seven sacraments. However, Orthodox spirituality appears, however, more narrow as largely confined to being monastic in character, while Catholic spirituality is indeed "more catholic" as realized by Saints in every vocation of life.

[Jean-Serge]

So you prefer a person to be depressed, gloomy, un-happy, negative, and despondent? Those aren't delusions, of course. Only good things are delusions, right?

Really, you did no understand many things to orthodoxy. These advices are not against happiness but against spiritual illusion that is a trap of the Evil who often suggests to people that they are saint, full of divine grace or makes them feel marvellous things... Moreover, your feelings may also be purely psychological. At the opposite in the papal chuch, they love those senstations, those feelings and so on... Look at the thousands of apparition of the Mother of God, most of them really dubious... As soon as someone says I have seen her... it is a tremendous agitation...

Orthodoxy is not against joy. How couldn't we be joyful while we know we belong to the body of Christ?

[joasia]

Evfimy

In all the blah blah that you say, the following shows that you are totally confused:

This is more reason why I need to leave Orthodoxy

I know very well what Orthodoxy is. My whole Orthodox experience has been thoroughly traditional. I have visited monasteries, read, interacted, and lived the life for years. And I'm just reporting my experiences. I feel joy, peace, consolation and grace when I commune

You say that you know "very well what Orthodoxy is" yet you state that "I need to leave Orthodoxy".

Please stop this dribble. I think we've all had enough.

[Evfimy]

Joasia,

I question whether your heart has ever been converted to Christ. Being baptized and doing the whole Sunday number of rituals, does not make one a Christian. The heart must be converted.

I simply see no reason to be Orthodox. They have no head, no unity, no love. They have saints. So what? Catholicism has saints and a visible head for a visible Church (the primacy in Rome and the popes). They also have unity -- all those faithful Catholics under the popes. Sure there are abuses. The devil is working hard to destroy the Church. But the gates of hell will never overcome it.

I apologize if I have ever sinned against anyone here.

[Kosmas]

How I wish I could speak with you face to face and at this very moment the Enemy is gleeful at the prospect of someone losing the battle. Please listen to our Saints about this very subject:

Will the Heterodox be Saved?
by Archimandrite (Metropolitan) Philaret, of blessed memory +1985

...* They have been born and raised and are living according to the creed which they have inherited, just as do the majority of you who are Orthodox; in their lives there has not been a moment of personal and conscious renunciation of Orthodoxy. The Lord, "Who will have all men to be saved" (I Tim. 2:4) and "Who enlightens every man born into the world" (Jn. 1.43), undoubtedly is leading them also towards salvation In His own way.

With reference to the above question, it is particularly instructive to recall the answer once given to an inquirer by the Blessed Theophan the Recluse. The blessed one replied more or less thus: "You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."We believe the foregoing answer by the saintly ascetic to be the best that can be given in this matter.

• The Greek word for "heresy" is derived from the word for "choice" and hence inherently implies conscious, willful rejection or opposition to the Divine Truth manifest in the Orthodox Church.
  From Orthodox Life, Vol. 34, No. 6 (Nov.-Dec., 1984), pp. 33-36.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/m ... rodox.aspx