Is Getting a Mail-Order Bride a Good Idea?

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Barbara
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Re: Is Getting a Mail-Order Bride a Good Idea?

Post by Barbara »

Regarding Jean-Serge's remark going unnoticed, I paid attention and fully agreed ! I didn't get a chance to cover that in my post,
but remembered after that I left out some important aspects.

I think none of us laymen have a very good way to judge who is converting REALLY and who is a fake convert.
Only a practiced priest or Bishop - or, a clairvoyant elder - would likely be able to discern this.

Thus, this IS a very important consideration. Our James wouldn't know until way too late whether or not his mailorder or
university student bride was even remotely sincere. It's too big a risk to take nowadays.
I would suggest that he pray for excellent discernment to be able to ferret out the prospects who are faking interest in Orthodoxy.

Yes, about Grand Duchess Elizabeth, she waited quite some years, in fact, before converting. She had a strong indoctrination
of Lutheranism growing up, as was witnessed by the hysterical reactions of her father and brother when she finally sent
them the letter informing them of her idea and seeking her father's blessing to convert to Russian Orthodox.

As I recall, her father said "No way" and almost disowned his daughter !

Observing the future Saint's process is instructive. It's realistic, too, that a Protestant doesn't often immediately cotton to
the "strange rituals", elaborate Liturgies and "worship of the Mother of God and Saints". She had to fight with the ideas inculcated from youth.
It was a fairly slow but steady transition for her.

Though no fan of Grand Duke Serge by any means, one favorable point about the Governor of Moscow at that age was that he - from all the accounts -
did not push her at all. He welcomed her interest in Orthodoxy. But stayed aloof so that it was really HER decision entirely,
which is the result one would want to see, as Jean-Serge says above.

Finally, Joasia is right when she bemoans the lack of support through difficult times of youth from a nice environment like this Forum.
So James is fortunate to be able to openly air any worries he has ! People are sympathetic, even when replying strictly.
The strictness is of course only for this youth's best interests.

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joasia
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Re: Is Getting a Mail-Order Bride a Good Idea?

Post by joasia »

jgress wrote:

Forgive me for any offense, Joanna.

No offense. We're just expressing our views.

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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joasia
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Re: Is Getting a Mail-Order Bride a Good Idea?

Post by joasia »

Jean-Serge wrote:

I think my commentary was unnoticed : "The other point is that the other one can convert without faith only to please you and marry you."

Suppose that you state a common faith is necessary and a prequisite for you. The lady might accept to convert to your faith not because she believes but because she is so much in love and does not want to lose you. Such cases do exist. What is the value of such conversion? I would say none.

It is difficult for a person to recognize whether a person is being deceptive. This is where I would counsel that a person in love should consider what others advise about that person. Many young people reject any views that would not fit their perspective of that person they love. That's why I give it a minimum of 2 years. During that time, there are many signs whether a person really cares to convert for the faith.

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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joasia
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Re: Is Getting a Mail-Order Bride a Good Idea?

Post by joasia »

jgress wrote:

Joanna is quite right that marriage is not "legalized lust". On the one hand St Paul says "better to marry than to burn (with passion)", so we recognize that we have urges that, for most of us, need a safe outlet, which is provided in marriage.

Good point. I've been learning about this counsel. St. Paul did advise to take a spouse for the condition that a man, or for that matter, a woman, would be calmed down in their lust for others. The union of marriage bonds the two people and makes them one. I would add that this is only right if they both commit themselves to each other and not pursue further relations ever more. When we Orthodox get married, it is first for the sake of sharing our worship for our Lord and Saviour. But, of course, emotions are involved. We are in love and want to spend all our time with this person. The two people become best friends. And the expression of loving someone is physical union. But, it should be for the right reasons.

James, a marriage is greatly blessed by God when it is entered with all the right reasons. Please consider all our comments.

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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Re: Is Getting a Mail-Order Bride a Good Idea?

Post by JamesR »

joasia wrote:

CHRIST IS BORN!
Here's a challenge. Let's say you meet a nice Orthodox girl. It takes a good 2 years to get to know someone in order to feel that this is someone that you love with all your heart and want to spend the rest of your life with her. Will you be content to be with her, in a celibate way, for those two years? Not even a little bit of kissing.

Yes I would be content because I haven't done any of that stuff yet anyway so I'm pretty confident in myself.

"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo (Confessions)

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Maria
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Re: Is Getting a Mail-Order Bride a Good Idea?

Post by Maria »

JamesR wrote:
joasia wrote:

CHRIST IS BORN!
Here's a challenge. Let's say you meet a nice Orthodox girl. It takes a good 2 years to get to know someone in order to feel that this is someone that you love with all your heart and want to spend the rest of your life with her. Will you be content to be with her, in a celibate way, for those two years? Not even a little bit of kissing.

Yes I would be content because I haven't done any of that stuff yet anyway so I'm pretty confident in myself.

Be careful. Self-confidence is a delusion.

We can only have confidence in God, and in the Theotokos, if we ask her to come unto our aid.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Re: Is Getting a Mail-Order Bride a Good Idea?

Post by JamesR »

jgress wrote:

Learning to master your passions will also help you not to see other women just as objects for your own relief, but as other human beings that you must love and care for.

That sounds nice. Having a younger sister has certainly done that for me and changed me for the better.

An Orthodox environment will be ideal for getting to know an Orthodox woman safely. For instance, if you meet someone nice at church, ask to come over to her house when her parents are there.

That would be ideal, only, the number of young people in the Orthodox Church seems incredibly low. I mean, I could consider an older woman, but that may be improper.

"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo (Confessions)

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