Evolution and an Orthodox Patristic understanding of Genesis

[TomS]

So Joasia - God created Adam from dust? Like dust that forms from a rock? .

:mrgreen:

BURN!

[Pravoslavnik]

Yes, C.v., I am ridiculous enough to agree with the modern astrophysicists, and the Orthodox Holy Fathers, who claimed that God created our universe ex nihilo. Modern physicists have theorized that the universe we live in was created by the splitting of an anti-particle and a particle, a process releasing sufficient energy to cause the Big Bang--and, since energy is interconvertible with mass-- to create the universe. And what is an anti-particle plus a particle? Nothing. Nihil. I take it, from your comments, that you disagree with modern physicists and the Holy Fathers of the Orthodox Church on this one.

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    Joasia, there is no place in the scriptures where it says that God did [i]not [/i]create the universe through evolutionary processes.  Your Protestant Fundamentalist mis-interpretation is based upon a flawed understanding of the nature of time in relation to the relative velocity of matter in the cosmos.  As hard as it is to imagine with our four dimensional sensory perceptions and neo-cortices (for some more than others), the first 24 hour "day" following the Big Bang lasted 8 billion years in earth-time.  The second "day" lasted 4 billion years, and the third, roughly 2 billion, including the first 2.5 billion years of earth's own history, when, in fact, plant life did appear on the planet, as C.v. has so astutely pointed out!  (The third day.) Hence, using relativity, both the scriptures and modern astrophysics agree on a great many aspects of paleology.

      I am thoroughly familiar with St. Seraphim of Sarov's conversation with Motovilov, and take it as further reliable evidence that God's special creation of Adam--as opposed to the adamah (homo sapiens)--involved the breathing of the Holy Spirit of God into a specific man created "from the dust of the earth."  This Adam was the first Homo Sapien endowed with the Holy Spirit, but fell from perfect communion with God through disobedience.  His sons married the daughters of men--the adamah, or homo sapiens, of earth--and did not, as C.v. claims, simply marry their own younger sisters in an unGodly, disease-prone, hopelessly incestuous process.

       By the way, C.v., you did not answer my final question.  How do the Protestant Fundamentalists that you so admire  interpret the section of [i]Genesis [/i]Chapter 2 which describes the "sons of God" marrying "the daughters of men" to create the "giants?"  Who were these "giant" Demigods and "sons of God," and what happened to them?  Did they end up playing in the NBA or what?  Please answer the question, since you endeavor to instruct us, and understand these scriptures so much more profoundly than we do.  Are you claiming that God was lying when He gave us these literally infallible accounts of earth's history?

[ChristosVoskrese]

Yes, C.v., I am ridiculous enough to agree with the modern astrophysicists, and the Orthodox Holy Fathers, who claimed that God created our universe ex nihilo. Modern physicists have theorized that the universe we live in was created by the splitting of an anti-particle and a particle, a process releasing sufficient energy to cause the Big Bang--and, since energy is interconvertible with mass-- to create the universe. And what is an anti-particle plus a particle? Nothing. Nihil. I take it, from your comments, that you disagree with modern physicists and the Holy Fathers of the Orthodox Church on this one.

I do not disagree with the Holy Fathers on this issue. I believe that God created the universe out of nothing. The modern astrophysicists, however, leave God out of the equation and just say that the universe formed itself at the Big Bang. But this is against the Second Law of Thermodynamics - order cannot come out of chaos.

Joasia, there is no place in the scriptures where it says that God did not create the universe through evolutionary processes. Your Protestant Fundamentalist mis-interpretation is based upon a flawed understanding of the nature of time in relation to the relative velocity of matter in the cosmos.

You accuse Joanna of having a Protestant Fundamentalist misinterpretation, yet you are arguing against her with another Protestant misinterpretation - that of Sola Scriptura (If it's not in the Bible, I won't believe it).

By the way, C.v., you did not answer my final question. How do the Protestant Fundamentalists that you so admire interpret the section of Genesis Chapter 2 which describes the "sons of God" marrying "the daughters of men" to create the "giants?" Who were these "giant" Demigods and "sons of God," and what happened to them? Did they end up playing in the NBA or what? Please answer the question, since you endeavor to instruct us, and understand these scriptures so much more profoundly than we do. Are you claiming that God was lying when He gave us these literally infallible accounts of earth's history?

Watch Kent Hovind's second video "The Garden of Eden". He provides evidence that giants did indeed walk the earth and that there were once 9, 10, 11 and even 12 foot people living on earth. Bones that size have been found, but many instituions (especially the Smithsonian) hide away this evidence because their theory of evolution looks silly with giant humans in the past, when people are supposedly getting bigger and better.

And don't give me any of this rubbish about Kent Hovind being a criminal or a Baptist preacher. While he may be in prison (he was framed, though) and he may be a Baptist, that doesn't automatically make everything he says false. I think that you just don't want to hear what he has to say, and you justify this by attacking his character.

[TomS]

For those who did not understand my earlier post --

"Burn" does not mean "burn in hell". "Burn" is a slang term used in the US meaning either an insult - or the person was caught doing something wrong.

In this case, in an earlier post, Joanna stated that it was stupid for someone to believe that man evolved from rocks.

[ChristosVoskrese]

Joanna stated that it was stupid for someone to believe that man evolved from rocks.

It is stupid. Have you ever seen a rock come to life? Were you around when it supposedly happened? Of course not. Then how can you say with certainty that it happened?

Is it because it's easier to believe that man came from a rock than to believe that God created us? Evolutionists will go to ridiculous lengths and believe ridiculous things just so they don't have to believe in God.

[TomS]

Joanna stated that it was stupid for someone to believe that man evolved from rocks.

It is stupid.

Joanna used a simplistic explanation. A typical tactic of hers. She attacks all points of views she does not agree with by labeling them stupid or ignorant.

I don't think that any evolutionist literally believes that man evolved from rocks per se - since rocks are inanimate objects.

However, the bible tells us that God created man from the dirt, dirt which is created from the wearing down of rocks.

So, are you saying that the Bible is wrong? 'Cause that point is pretty literal.

[joasia]

In this case, in an earlier post, Joanna stated that it was stupid for someone to believe that man evolved from rocks

Man didn't evolve from a rock. God created man.

And since God created man before mankind started believing in a different version of how mankind came into existence, then the evolutionists are teaching against the Holy Bible. Why should I believe in false teachings? I believe in what the holy prophets taught and what the holy apostles taught(that Jesus Christ revealed to them by the Holy Spirit) and what the holy fathers taught, which is all Orthodox.

I don't think that any evolutionist literally believes that man evolved from rocks per se - since rocks are inanimate objects.

Yes they do believe that life developed from non-life. And since God created from the ground, they want to twist that and state that it all developed all on it's own over billions of years...from a primordial soup.

You wasted your burn, Tom.

And when Tom is bored he likes to use me as his target of amusement.

I will refrain from using the word stupid; I am being insensitive. Thanks for pointing it out Tom.

To those that I have replied in using that word, please forgive me. And I apologize for any judgements I made on a personal level. I mean it.

And these discussions are really just going in circles. To each his own. I still will never believe in evolution, but I need to move on to more spiritual matters.