Moderator: Mark Templet
Rostislav wrote:
Well, I unapologetically denounce all pathes of apostasy as pathes to perdition...
R
Maybe so, but where does that stop you from praying for your fallen brother?
I would remind you of the Parable of the Prodigal Son. Or is this lesson from Christ no longer applicable to his followers?
Milla
Are you a Bishop now interpreting Scripture? No one says that we shouldn't pray for the return of apostates and heretics, but EVERYONE says we should avoid them and eschew their doctrine...for it leads us out of the Church straight to hell. I have many sins to repent for and I in no way sit in judgement of anyone. That being said, the burden of apostasy is not a cross I can bear. And I'm sure most can't.
R
I wish I was a canon lawyer to be so clearcut in my understandings and denunciations. But I will presume to say that the moment an act of apostasy means castigating other Orthodox Christians for being observent in order "to comfort" apostates is the moment my point on the danger of coddling apostasy is vindicated. I say to you with all my being:
ORTHODOXY OR DEATH!!!
And I say it unapologetically.
Da Voskresnit Bogh I Rastochatsja vrazi Jego!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky
S NAMI BOGH!!!
(Perhaps some should look into the Slavonic definition of the word "soblazn'" for that is the obnoxious and poisonous position some are putting forward.)
Apostasy is dangerous grounds. Not only is a person walking on those grounds, to the detriment of his soul, but anyone who will attempt to bring him back, is taking on a dangerous task, because that person can also fall into it. It's the way the evil one works. He is not satisfied with one soul, but wants to infect others. This is how I read it from the holy fathers.
Bearing one another's burdens is our Christian duty, but does that include bearing the sin of apostasy? We cannot share in that fall. Apostasy, of itself, means turing away from the truth. I don't think the holy fathers were teaching about bearing the burden of someone's apostasy. The only ones that should bear that sin is Justin's confessor-priest; because, God will have him answer for it. That is a great burden.
In Christ,
Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
Being sinful, I beg all your prayers and pray as much as i can for all...
Panaghia Theotokos, zoson emas!
And, I may be remiss, but I guess I did say we must pray for those who err that they be delivered from demonic temptations. But the ORTHODOX version I know of the Parable of the Prodigal Son (THE ONLY VERSION) has the Prodigal Son RETURNING.
R
Petting the much maligned rotties who are so cute!
God never promised a safe world, but he did ask us to do onto the least of our brothers, what we ask him to do for us.
When my friend fell of the wagon, so to speak, most of his Orthodox friends did as you proport....cut him off with cries of apostate, heretic and every other mean thing that one human can say to another. I could not do to him what others had done. I stayed friends with him, I was willing to be around him. He did not try to convince me to follow him, but he did try to "explain" himself to me and the more he tried the more our conversations would come back to a discussion of Orthodoxy. It took about four years but God showed him the way back. Today he attributes his journey back to the fact the I, his only remaining Orthodox friend, did not abandon him but instead tried to help him find his way back.
If a member of our Church is "ill" do we not try to help him, even if it is only with prayer? or if it is beyond our abilities or we do not have the strength of faith, do we not try to find him help?
Milla[/quote]
Reiterating my point on the right thread:
Kollyvas wrote:Is that a florinite of matthewite response? I've addressed our conversation on the right thread. apostasy is a spirirtual illness evoked by great temptations. The demons work overtime to use apostates to lead others astray. "soblazn'." It is the WRONG place for struggling Orthodox Christians to find themselves.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
Rostislav
This is a matter of spiritual warfare. The discord caused by apostasy is pretty clear. Soblazn'.
R
