1054 Schism and Intercommunion

[Evfimy]

They brought these issues on themselves because of their pride, disobedience and lust for power.

Regarding my previous statement on grace and communion:

I have always had a history of very thorough, honest and detailed confessions. And the past few years communing has been intermitent due to the confusions of the traditionalists who don't seem to know where grace is and is not. I've always felt grace from communion.

In 2003 my level of stress was at an all time high. I can't explain how bad it was.

In 2004 I communed at an official Serbian church (non-traditional). After I communed, I was healed of that level of stress and it never returned.

That's just one example.

[joasia]

Evfimy,

No, it shows you have never experienced the grace of the Holy Spirit. As Father Seraphim said, a persons develops a sense of what is Orthodox and what is not.

From everything you have written here, YOU show that YOU do not have a sense of what is Orthodox. You talk about converting to papism, "traditional" papism; that, BTW, is an oxy-moron.

You question why God allowed such things to happen with Ephraim; what a simple view. Why did He allow it? Because He gave free will. Of course, He sees what we will do and He sees what we are at our deaths. But, the course of life is up to our free will. God already knows if we will be saved or not. It's our feeble lives that have to endure this slow timeline.

God has already won the victory at the end of time. It's in Revelations. Have you read it? We know how it's going to end. Let me give you a hint...satan loses.

Why would He take Grace away from one that had it before...because they turned from Him. God knows what will happen, but don't you think that He sent them messages to reconsider? But, by their own will and stubborness and lack of faith, they still turned from Him. If Adam could turn from Him, how much easier for the generations to come?

Why would the Theotokos say that she will be with Mt. Athos, always, and now that most are heretics...because one day she WILL leave. For the sake of the few that are still there, she is still with them. But, one day she WILL leave.

I have been Orthodox for years. I know what grace is and is not.

If you cannot see the arrogance in this statement, then you are already quite deep in it. Are you a saint? Are you one of the Apostles or any of the saints that have the right to say that? How can you make a statement like that at the equal level of the saints who lived in daily communion with God.

YOU are talking about going with the papists...and then you equal yourself to the saints who truely did LIVE in the Holy Spirit?

Brother, you are lost. Try to find your way back.

And you have a total papist mis-conception about St. Ignatius Brianchaninov. You do realize why the papists didn't like him, don't you? He refuted many of their lies. Look it up.

It looks like you took one step forward and 10 steps back. You are in a worse place then you started...because now you have the knowledge of the teachings of Orthodoxy and you reject it.

[Evfimy]

From everything you have written here, YOU show that YOU do not have a sense of what is Orthodox.

I know very well what Orthodoxy is. My whole Orthodox experience has been thoroughly traditional. I have visited monasteries, read, interacted, and lived the life for years. And I'm just reporting my experiences. I feel joy, peace, consolation and grace when I commune. I felt the same thing in the Serbian church. Saint Seraphim even told us to do the thing that gives us the most grace from God. I believe God awarded me with those experiences because of my faithfulness, sufferings and thorough confessions.

You and others probably do not deserve to have these kind of experiences.

Nothing in my experience violates Orthodox teaching.

Are you against people feeling joy, peace and grace from God?

You talk about converting to papism, "traditional" papism; that, BTW, is an oxy-moron.

That statement shows you do not know Catholicism. They have traditionalists even as Orthodoxy does.

You question why God allowed such things to happen with Ephraim; what a simple view. Why did He allow it? Because He gave free will. Of course, He sees what we will do and He sees what we are at our deaths. But, the course of life is up to our free will. God already knows if we will be saved or not. It's our feeble lives that have to endure this slow timeline.

My point was that if Ephraim is now a bonafied apostate being in the GOA, why has God not revoked his clairvoyants? Clairvoyants is a gift of the Holy Spirit. What is the Holy Spirit doing giving gifts to a heretic?

God has already won the victory at the end of time. It's in Revelations. Have you read it? We know how it's going to end. Let me give you a hint...satan loses.

Yes I've read the book of Revelation many times. And I never said Satan wins so I don't know what your point is.

Why would He take Grace away from one that had it before...because they turned from Him.

So why would God remove grace from the GOA, Moscow, etc? They had it before did they not?

Why would the Theotokos say that she will be with Mt. Athos, always, and now that most are heretics...because one day she WILL leave. For the sake of the few that are still there, she is still with them. But, one day she WILL leave.

I think she said she will tell the monks when it is time to leave. If they are so bad now, why hasn't she told them to go traditional?

If you cannot see the arrogance in this statement, then you are already quite deep in it. Are you a saint? Are you one of the Apostles or any of the saints that have the right to say that? How can you make a statement like that at the equal level of the saints who lived in daily communion with God.

I never claimed the grace I received was equal to the saints. Obviously you have never experienced the grace of God.

YOU are talking about going with the papists...and then you equal yourself to the saints who truely did LIVE in the Holy Spirit?

I don't equal myself with the saints. The term "papist" has developed a very negative connotation among easterners. I am going with the fathers. If this leads to the papacy, so be it. I just want to be faithful to the fathers.

Brother, you are lost. Try to find your way back.

Back to what?

And you have a total papist mis-conception about St. Ignatius Brianchaninov. You do realize why the papists didn't like him, don't you? He refuted many of their lies. Look it up.

I think Saint Theophan of Poltava (or recluse) had problems with him too about some things.

I have problems with Ignatius because I get from him that virtually everything humans experience is a delusion unless it is negative or oppressive. I believe he was a sadistic psychopath, to say nothing of being a saint.

[Jean-Serge]

I have problems with Ignatius because I get from him that virtually everything humans experience is a delusion unless it is negative or oppressive. I believe he was a sadistic psychopath, to say nothing of being a saint.

The problem is not with Saint Ignatius but with yourself. Sain Ignatius's warning about sensations and feelings is confirmed by Saint John of the Ladder... and all the Fathers in general...

[Constantine]

Evimy wrote:
So why would God remove grace from the GOA, Moscow, etc? They had it before did they not?

Judas performed miracles, but grace was later taken away from him.

Constantine

[GOCTheophan]

Evimy wrote:
So why would God remove grace from the GOA, Moscow, etc? They had it before did they not?

Judas performed miracles, but grace was later taken away from him.

Constantine

Dear Constantine,

Hindus also preform miracles as do actual satanists.

Theophan.

[Kosmas]

To. Mr. C.

"Judas performed miracles, but grace was later taken away from him."

It is better not to say that rather none of us know for certain. If you are referring to the time the Lord sent out the Apostles two by two before His face and they performed signs, healings, and drove out demons,...Judas was with another Apostle when these miracles happened.

To. Evfimy,

Please, stop agitating troubled waters. You are hurting others and yourself. Regardless, you should already know it is impossible for Roman Catholicism to unite with Orthodoxy. The ONLY way a Roman Catholic or ANY other person can unite to Orthodoxy is to reject their past notions of what Christianity is and to embrace the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. In my opinion trine Baptism is the only way to safeguard any misconceptions of what union entails. Any other method is dangerous and generally harms the convert and us.

P.S. It is best not to talk about Uncreated Grace. Just let it be.