ROCOR Anathema Against ecumenism (1983)

[Jean-Serge]

I am back. I think you are misnformed. So I am going to give you my sources. As regards Antioch, I was not talking about joint ownership of a common building which is understandable due the difficulty to buy new churches. I am talking about the common typicon with the Monophysites.

The conclusions of the 2004 Thessaloniki conference about ecumenism cleraly states : "The issue of sacramental intercommunion of the Patriarchate of Antioch with the Monophysites be investigated, as well as the recognition of certain mysteries of these heretics {Coptic monophysites] by the Patriarchate of Alexandria"

Indeed, in the Alexandria Patriarchate, a miwed couple Orthodox and Monophysite now only have to do the wedding at one of the church... Which means recognizing the mystery of marriage of the coptic church...

The whole text is available http://uncutmountain.com/uncut/docs/Con ... menism.pdf

Another text of ths same conference (The mystery of Baptism and the Unity of church by Fr Peter Alban Heers) says : "Finally in July of this year (2004), the Australian dioceses of the Patriarchates of Constantinople, Antioch and Romania, signed the so*called "Covenanting Document" of the National Council of Churches of Australia, whereby the recognize the Sacrament of Baptism administered in the heterodox communities (Roman catholic, Non chalcedonian, Anglican, Lutheran, Congragationalist, and Uniting) and propote use of a common "Certificate of Baptism" (page

http://uncutmountain.com/uncut/docs/heers_baptism.pdf for the whole
text

The text of the joint declaration says : "We agree to recognize the Scrament of Baptism administerd in each other's church and to promote the use of the common Certificate of Baptism"

For the whole text, see

http://www.ncca.org.au/departments/fait ... venant.pdf

At last, in Germany, the EP recognizes the Protestant baptism made by the church called EKD. This is an extract the common text :

"Although [full] church fellowship does not yet exist between our churches, we each regard the other's members as being baptised and in the case of a change of confession we reject undertaking a new baptism," the two churches said in a joint statement.

It is a clear recognition of heretical baptism...

SEE http://directionstoorthodoxy.org/mod/ne ... le_id=2363

These three exemples show that those churches fall under 1983 anathema...

i WILL CONCLUDE LATER ABOUT HILARION OF VIENA

[Kollyvas]

OK, the only thing that needs to be said is that uniates LEFT THE TRUTH OF ORTHODOXY IN SUBMISSION to papal despotism and error, WHICH INCLUDES BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, ie the filioque...Since St. Photios the Great the CHURCH HAS SPECFICALLY CONDEMNED THE FILIOQUE AS HERESY. Now, with uniates who HAVE RENOUNCED ORTHODOXY FOR heresy--APOSTATES--their pride steps in the way of the deifying grace of the Holy Spirit. IT IS ONLY IN BEING HONEST WITH THEM THAT WE SHOW THEM LOVE AND LEAD THEM TO THE SAVING ENCLOSURE OF THE CHURCH. These "saints' WERE NOT ORTHODOX, NOT MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH, DIED OUTSIDE OF IT AND IN REJECTION OF IT in prideful affirmation of heresy. Ecclesiologically, THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN BE RECOGNIZED AS SAINTS of the Church. Moreover, the implication that some wayward jurisdiction would recognize them and that SCOBA would consider it manifests an UTTERLY HERETICAL AND SOUL DESTROYING ecclesiology manifestly CONDEMNED by the Anathema against ecumenism. (This also clearly indicates the sick ecumenism of the ep). These people need Truth and sometimes that Truth has to be harsh like the Holy Prophet Jeremiah or St. John the Baptist, because their course is leading them straight out of the Orthodox Church to the gates of perdition. The love of political correctness is a rejection of Truth and inappropriate to Orthodoxy...Yes, they are bearing crosses, but only by coming to the fulness of Orthodoxy and not exiting the Church or glorifying evil doers can they overcome the enemy of our souls...This is a clear example of the heresy of ecumenism practiced in World Orthodoxy--MAY GOD PRESERVE US FROM IT!!!!
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!!!
R M Malleev-Pokrovsky
Perhaps some wayward Orthodox will be pushing the glorification of barlaam, isidore or josaphat kuntsevich as a manifestation of the "ecumenism of love."--why not pius ix to make this goblin soup ever savoury for them?! And the ROCOR of Fr. Komarovsky will be quick with rationalizations of this evil....

[George Australia]

Here are the official conclusions of the Inter-Orthodox Theological Conference "Ecumenism: Origins – Expectations – Disenchantment".
What you have been presenting to me are the results of theological consultations between Catholics and Orthodox...they have no binding merit on anyone. What I am presenting to you is of equal, if not greater merit, since it is an agreed theological statement composed solely of Orthodox representation.
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/t ... sions.aspx

And one more thing, your histrionics about "recognition of baptisms" in the Balamand Agreement is quite unecesary....because it doesn't exist. It never was wtritten in the original text of the agreement, it was added by an extremist author in a book entitled "Ecumenism-Path to Perdition". The author includes a footnote to point out that what she has written as the text of the agreement is in fact, not the text of the agreement, but her "logical conclusions". It's just that extremists are so bent on believing lies, they simply ignored this footnote and presented a false text of the Balamand Agreement. You can read the original footnote in the online version of Ecumenism-Path to Perdition". It is footnote number 337 which reads:

[337] Although the sentence about the rejection of re-baptism is absent in Paragraph 13 of the official text of the Balamand Agreement, in the English language this injunction naturally follows from the text of this Paragraph.

and can be read for yourself if you scroll down to footnote Number 337 at: http://ecumenizm.tripod.com/ECUMENIZM/id24.html

I am an Orthodox Christian, taught to seek out the truth, not believe every bit of gossip I hear in an unmanly way.

[George Australia]

The conclusions of the 2004 Thessaloniki conference about ecumenism cleraly states : "The issue of sacramental intercommunion of the Patriarchate of Antioch with the Monophysites be investigated, as well as the recognition of certain mysteries of these heretics {Coptic monophysites] by the Patriarchate of Alexandria"

You mean, that "World Orthodox Conference of Anathamised Heretics"? What difference does iyt make to you what anathamised people say at their conference? Or do they not fall under the ROCOR Anathema?

"Although [full] church fellowship does not yet exist between our churches, we each regard the other's members as being baptised and in the case of a change of confession we reject undertaking a new baptism," the two churches said in a joint statement.

Note the word "Full" which is in parenthesese. That means, again, it is someone's interpretation, not the original text of the agreement, and secondly, doesn't it make you wonder what the point is of recognising a "baptism" that doesn't admit the recipient to the Church?

[Kollyvas]

I included the membership of these consultations intentionally in anticipation of the foolery of such obfuscation. HIERARCHS are involved in these recommendations--that's how your HERESIARCH ep is "rightly defining the word of truth." The ep is pivotal in promoting this as their policy. Let's go further: Canons have been presented, Fathers alluded to, evidence provided of breeches which merit deposition and ACTIVITY FALLING SQUARELY UNDER THE ANATHEMA against ecumenism. St. Justin of Chelje clearly demarcated this path to perdition. Blessed +Metropolitan Philaret stood up to lies and compromise and his relics rest incorrupt. Fr. Georges Florovsky, the grandfather of ORTHODOX dialogue PATENTLY came to reject the compromise and ecclesiological implications of the "dialogue of love" as "sectarian." Yet an ep ECUMENIST apologist finds words of comfort for the lawless. The credential presented pales in comparison to those who have spoken out on the contrary, and the delusional lies offered to justify or cover up truth simply imply that Truth is not the centerpiece of the ep agenda. "Manliness" is mentioned in tones that befit nurnberg, but a swastika, even if it's politically correct, can never overshadow the TRUTH of the Cross. I intentionally wasn't very active on this thread to observe how it would play out. I could continue with further evidence and contextualize insurgencies like Thessaloniki, but the pointlessness is evident. You in the ep can go and commemorate heretics as "saints" and your bishops can go and lay the framework for your SECTARIAN "two lungs" ecclesiology, but the simple fact of the conclusion of this thread is that by the old ROCOR's estimation your activity is HETERODOX and you are worthy of anathema. We've supported that conclusion. The "manly" firstly have the COURAGE to accept truth, not spin lies in an effeminate circean fashion...For my part, I've noticed the heckling and jeers and ep apologist miasma of your presentation--I'll exchange words with you no further, for it's clear your interest is in being argumentative and in verbal brawls, but your accuracy, sincerity and truthfulness are simply not genuine. I'll not subject my integrity to further exercises in moral equivalence...YOUR HERETICAL UNIONISM IS APPALLING AND UNWORTHY OF AN ORTHODOX FORUM.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!!!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky
Those being baptized spit in the face of satan, but the ep wants to elevate his "church" as equal to or even the "other half" of Christ's Body, sickening and BLASPHEMOUS--nestorios too was patriarch of constantinople.

[George Australia]

Your "evidence" is not evidence as I pointed out. It doesn't exist. I repeat:

your histrionics about "recognition of baptisms" in the Balamand Agreement is quite unecesary....because it doesn't exist. It never was wtritten in the original text of the agreement, it was added by an extremist author in a book entitled "Ecumenism-Path to Perdition". The author includes a footnote to point out that what she has written as the text of the agreement is in fact, not the text of the agreement, but her "logical conclusions". It's just that extremists are so bent on believing lies, they simply ignored this footnote and presented a false text of the Balamand Agreement. You can read the original footnote in the online version of Ecumenism-Path to Perdition". It is footnote number 337 which reads:

[337] Although the sentence about the rejection of re-baptism is absent in Paragraph 13 of the official text of the Balamand Agreement, in the English language this injunction naturally follows from the text of this Paragraph.

and can be read for yourself if you scroll down to footnote Number 337 at: http://ecumenizm.tripod.com/ECUMENIZM/id24.html

I am an Orthodox Christian, taught to seek out the truth, not believe every bit of gossip I hear in an unmanly way.

[Kollyvas]

I never addressed Balamand...I presented DIRECT QUOTES from the Orthodox-Catholic Consultation of 1999 on Baptism which HAS BECOME the official ep policy. I provided a link to the entire statement. I've quoted your Bishops and detailed their activities and statements and provided Canons which demarcate what is Orthodox and what lies outside of the Church...behold the ep and your novel "truth." As the controversy arose as to whether or not the "ecumenism of love" falls under the 1983 ROCOR anathema, yes, it does and that's blaringly evident. Your point is sallied and deconstructed: no nuance or distraction can rescue it. Your ecclesiology is not Orthodox and you believe in a different church: MINE IS THE CHURCH OF THE FATHERS, THE BODY OF CHRIST. Fr. John Romanides' comments can be cited to further illustrate the betrayal of Orthodoxy on the part of the ep and its representatives, but even Christ coming down and rejecting ep activity would not convince you--no, the church of the grand inquisitor has no need of Him. Gossip and rumor coming straight from ep and ecumenist sources--my oh my. how lies must be reified. FINIS.
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!!!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky
Go and pray with your pope to heretical demoniacs you are now calling "saints"...
The spirit of florence lives unrepentent amidst the ruins of the fallen city, and its spiritual heirs are blatently unrepentent for bringing God's wrath.