Official Statement Re: Orthodox Christian/Jewish Relations

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Hexapsalms
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Post by Hexapsalms »

Brendan--

I think we've covered the white vs non-white cultural issue well enough. I understand your views and why you have them--my concern is that an overemphasis on that issue can push it over into an obsessive concern to preserve White culture (which has alternated from paganism to Christianity to paganism again) over preserving Christianity.

"White" culture would never have progressed from the druidism, forest deities and wiccan sacrifices if Christians had not evangelized them. An African Christian once told me that in his country (Kenya) the tribes who were progressive were the ones who were Christian, freed from tribal devils and juju men. By contrast, when the very civilized Germans dumped Christianity in the 20th century in favor of a return to Wotan and Valhalla to preserve their Germanness, they turned into war-mongering Nazis. In doing so, instead of preserving their German culture, they coldly murdered other peoples, murdered physically and mental handicapped Germans (in pursuit of a perfect race), and brought wholesale destruction upon themselves, losing 1/3 of their own male population in a totally unnecessary war. The Japanese did the same thing, enslaving Koreans, exterminating Chinese, and miserably maltreating our POWs because they assumed Europeans to be an inferior race (because they dared to surrender). Race is just another form of tribalism, just like the kind that rules the eternally war-torn places like Afghanistan, but Christianity is not tribalism, but available to anyone who believes in Christ.

As for myself, I enjoy seeing other peoples and cultures around me who manage to get along and respect each other. In my town we may be finally learning to be neighbors, which is so much better than what I grew up with. The town I grew up in (just across the river from where I live now) was very segregated and remains so. The townsfolk still talk about the innocent black man who was lynched and burned in the town's square. The grease spot was cleaned up after church the next day. Our area barely managed to escape race riots in the 1960's, perhaps because of the vivid memories of the really awful one in 1917 where armed white folks arrived in truckloads and shot anything that moved, including children fleeing burning houses. I've seen the pictures of refugees fleeing across the bridge from their burning city from that time. It looked like a war was going on. This same city later became all black because of white flight, any whites left in the area were hounded out by the blacks. All attempts at school integration failed in the first two days of school as white kids were beaten up getting off the bus. The whole area for miles around has long suffered psychologically and economically because of racism from both sides. I can see why there is the fear and the hate on both sides. But I'm really fed up with white power and black power--these have gotten us nowhere but in a stinking mire of hate. ENOUGH is ENOUGH.

There is no solution to this tribalism and racism but Christianity which has nothing to do with either. Why don't we focus this discussion on how to evangelize with Christianity, specifically Orthodoxy? How to make the Church strong again? The problem is White people are becoming agnostics or Druidic pagans or turning to Islam or other Eastern religions; the original Christian theology of black churches is being replaced by Afro-centrisms and they are also being invaded by Islam; other races and ethnic groups in America are spiritually drifting back to tribalism, too. Everyone is reverting in some way to tribalism. Let's not add to the mess, but instead offer a real solution in Christianity, which would give all these lost souls, whatever their race or tribe, a common and overarching identity within the Church.

brendan

Post by brendan »

Hexapsalms wrote:

Brendan--

There is no solution to this tribalism and racism but Christianity which has nothing to do with either. Why don't we focus this discussion on how to evangelize with Christianity, specifically Orthodoxy? How to make the Church strong again? The problem is White people are becoming agnostics or Druidic pagans or turning to Islam or other Eastern religions; the original Christian theology of black churches is being replaced by Afro-centrisms and they are also being invaded by Islam; other races and ethnic groups in America are spiritually drifting back to tribalism, too. Everyone is reverting in some way to tribalism. Let's not add to the mess, but instead offer a real solution in Christianity, which would give all these lost souls, whatever their race or tribe, a common and overarching identity within the Church.

I'm not convinced that tribalism itself is a problem any more than is sex. Each in its proper place is necessary for human survival. There are good and bad manifestations of both.

Lynchings and interracial hate crimes are to tribalism what adultery and rape are to sex.

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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas »

Tribalism does not lead us to salvation. Christ does. In Christ there is neither Greek nor Jew but only Christian.

Hexapsalms
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Post by Hexapsalms »

Brendan--

You seem really stuck...you seem impervious to Christian reasonings. "Whiteness" is your real religion, not Orthodoxy, not Christianity.

Tribalism is wholly SECULAR (in heaven there is neither Jew nor Greek). (Sex is secular, as in heaven there is neither male nor female.) The SECULAR will perish, just like our mortal white or black or red bodies perish. Why invest in the secular?

Tribalism has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God. It gets us nothing but hatred, indifference to our fellow man, and war. As Nickolas says--"it does not lead to salvation." Salvation is what is necessary for mankind, not tribalism. Ask the Germans what their "white is right" theology got them. They never recovered their Christianity after their evil wallowing in tribalism. Ask the Japanese why they are still almost totally impervious to Christianity because of their tribalism.

Either you believe in salvation in Christ or you don't. If you believe in salvation by tribalism (it sure sounds like it), then you're NOT Christian but pagan--someone whose focus is wholly on THIS world, not the Kingdom. In short, you seem a thorough-going SECULARIST at heart.

gphadraig
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Post by gphadraig »

According to my uncle in South Africa there is or was a 'church' there which had a clear view on the the place of the 'white' tribe versus all the supposed others, its' name The Dutch Reformed Church.

Jesus of Nazareth, the Apostles, and the seventy would have all been viewed by Europeans and those of European ancestry, particularly by those from North Western European stock as non-whites. The culture that the advocates of a supposedly superior secular kind is totally alien to all His teaching and those of His followers as is that of many who regard themselves as modern day 'Christians".

I am of Irish stock and hold no shame nor overbearing pride as a consequence. Nor do I hold a grudge against the descendants of those who oppressed my kin for 800 years. I know that whole villages where raided over in England by Moors and the people carried off into slavery. Again folk there appear to hold no grudge.

Among Christians we are first that Christians, brothers and sisters in Christ. If we hold on to something else such as that gets in the way of our following of Him, we have not put on the New but clung to the Old man within us surely?

Sorry, Brendan, I come of a tribal society with terrible consequences - much if it thriving on monies from your side of the pond. Men so locked in defending their tribe they destroyed everything that was good - even their own sometimes legitimate arguments against injustice. In saying this I also reject the trendy social mores of the supposed New World Order and every other political or social movement born from either the so-called Right or Left. I would like to reach out and find some common ground but as has already been said you radiate an aura of one who is primarily concerned about your tribe and its place - not that of one sharing the Good News with the whole world..........

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Schultz
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Post by Schultz »

According to my uncle in South Africa there is or was a 'church' there which had a clear view on the the place of the 'white' tribe versus all the supposed others, its' name The Dutch Reformed Church.

There are more "churches" like this than just this one. All are proponents of British Israelism, a theory popularized in its modern form by Irish-born John Wilson in the early 19th century. This theory claims that the British Isles are the home of the lost tribes of Israel and therefore the Anglo-Saxon people are the true heirs of the title "God's Chosen People". While "traditional" British Israelism isn't anti-Semitic per se, as they view the Jewish people as "partners" of sorts, its more extant form, found in such publications as "The Plain Truth", takes on a more anti-Jewish flavor.

There are some more flagrantly racist congregations that are probably close to the Dutch Reformed Church of South Africa's view on things, most notably the World Church of the Creator, now called the 'Creativity Movement'.

Groups such as the Church of the Creator and

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