Evolution and an Orthodox Patristic understanding of Genesis

[stumbler]

"Kent E. Hovind (born January 15, 1953), who sometimes refers to himself as "Dr. Dino", is an American evangelist and prominent Young Earth creationist who is serving a ten-year term in Atlanta Federal Prison for 58 tax offenses, obstructing federal agents and related charges."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

Can you show us an unincarcerated, Orthodox source for your Protestant teachings?

I would be happy to look at it, especially if it comes from someone whose degree is not from a diploma mill.

[ChristosVoskrese]

Why an Orthodox Christian Cannot be an Evolutionist

Also, if you can find it, read Genesis, Creation and Early Man by Blessed Fr. Seraphim Rose. I haven't read it, but I've heard that it's very good.

Since when is believing what is written in the Scriptures a Protestant teaching? And since when is believing that God created everything through evolution an Orthodox teaching? That would mean that Blessed Seraphim was a Protestant and that Pope John Paul II was Orthodox.

Our Lord Jesus Christ said, when talking about marriage and divorce: "But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female" (Mark 10:6) The Greek word used here is αρχή, and it means "beginning" or "origin". Jesus quite clearly said that God created Adam and Eve at the beginning, not millions of years after the beginning.

There are three options.

1. Was Jesus lying? (God cannot lie, so if this is true, then it means that Jesus is not God)
2. Did Jesus not understand modern science? (God knows everything, so if this is true, then Jesus is not God)
3. Was Jesus right? (If this is true, the Creationism is not a Protestant teaching but taught by Our Lord and Saviour Himself)

[stumbler]

My question to you was if you had an Orthodox source for the teachings of your convicted felon "Dr." Hovind, who has no degree in any sort of science (or anything else) from a properly accredited institution. Maybe he can fix that during his 10 year sentence, if he is not too busy converting people to protestantism while he is in prison. You can read about how he is leading people away from the truth of Orthodoxy and into his own pseudo-religion here: http://www.cseblogs.com/

He feels prison is a fertile missionary field for his teachings - and he is likely correct, given that most people there have gone astray already and are demonstratedly willing to follow false gods.

You could not answer my question. Your version of creationism is a protestant teaching because it comes from a protestant source, just as it is a criminal teaching because it comes from a properly convicted criminal. It is also an anti intellectual teaching, as it comes from a man who values education so little, that like a character from The Wizard of Oz, he believes that it is the diploma and not the education that matters.

The teachings of Orthodoxy do not revolve around speculating on matters of science, though apparently the teachings of some protestant cults seem to.

It turns my stomach a bit that the name of Fr. Seraphim (whom I met once in San Francisco) comes out of the same mouth you use to recommend the ridiculousness of your criminal protestant teacher "Dr." Hovind.

[Pravoslavnik]

"Also, if you can find it, read Genesis, Creation and Early Man by Blessed Fr. Seraphim Rose. I haven't read it, but I've heard that it's very good."

Dear C.V.,

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   I carefully studied Father Seraphim's posthumously published writings in [i]Genesis, Creation, and Early Man[/i] when the book was first written and published by Hieromonk Damascene Christian several years ago (2000), and I have been quite personally acquainted with someone who collaborated with Father Seraphim in promoting Henry Morris's Young Earth Creationist "data" within Orthodoxy since the 1980's.  It is precisely because of my familiarity with Father Seraphim's writings that I have carefully studied these issues during the past decade, and concluded that Father Seraphim's writings on paleobiology and the [i]Hexaemeron [/i]are fundamentally flawed.   Please review my detailed posts on this subject on the current thread, if you are really interested in learning more about the scientific issues, including the relevance of the theory of relativity to this subject.  I would add that a fellow Orthodox scentist, Dr. Alexander Kalomiros, also disagreed openly with Father Seraphim's views of evolution and paleobiology during Father Seraphim's lifetime.

    If you really want to understand the many serious flaws in the Fundamentalist alternatives to Darwinian evolutionary theory, you should read Dr. Kenneth Miller's excellent text [i]Finding Darwin's God[/i].

[joasia]

My question to you was if you had an Orthodox source for the teachings of your convicted felon "Dr." Hovind, who has no degree in any sort of science (or anything else) from a properly accredited institution

Darwin was a theology student...he was never a scientist...but you believe in his "science"? What particular points do you want to point out in order to compare to the Orthodox teachings.

Maybe he can fix that during his 10 year sentence, if he is not too busy converting people to protestantism while he is in prison.

There is always hope in God for people outside of the full faith. Why don't you give him the fighting chance? St. Catherine the Great was a pagan. St. Mary of Egypt didn't believe. For the love of God, St. Paul persecuted the Christians and had them killed. St. Stephen, the first martyr was killed because of Saul(St. Paul). He's being convicted for voicing his faith in God. The arrest is just a means of taking him out of the public scope. He was bringing people to believe in God. So, yes, he is a Baptist. His theology is wrong...but he's was doing something to bring people to believe in God. What have YOU done to bring a person to God?

Didn't Christ reprimand the Apostles for critisizing a man that healed in God's name? I'm not saying to accept all that shout on the roof tops, but let's not be so quick to judge a person for trying to explain God to the people. Yes. We have to analyse what they preach, but let's take it into perspective.

He feels prison is a fertile missionary field for his teachings - and he is likely correct, given that most people there have gone astray already and are demonstratedly willing to follow false gods.

So, what have we done to bring others to God? In this day and age, just to mention God sounds weird to people.

You could not answer my question. Your version of creationism is a protestant teaching because it comes from a protestant source, just as it is a criminal teaching because it comes from a properly convicted criminal

So what is the Orthodox version of creationism. Pravo hasn't answered my questions. Can you?

And for that matter, what ever comes from you is a sin because you are a sinner. So why should I believe what you say? You are a sinner and flawed. Do you see where this is going?

It turns my stomach a bit that the name of Fr. Seraphim (whom I met once in San Francisco) comes out of the same mouth you use to recommend the ridiculousness of your criminal protestant teacher "Dr." Hovind.

Fr. Seraphim, who I admire, was labelled as a young creationist.

As much as you oppose Dr. Hovind, have you ever considered what he teaches?

I don't support Protestant beliefs, but I find his scientific explanations interesting.

If you can point out some points he makes that are against science logic then that would be most helpful. [/quote]

[jckstraw72]

are you Punchy on Christian Forums?

[ChristosVoskrese]

I see no-one's answered my question, so I'll post it again.

Our Lord Jesus Christ said, when talking about marriage and divorce: "But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female" (Mark 10:6) The Greek word used here is αρχή, and it means "beginning" or "origin". Jesus quite clearly said that God created Adam and Eve at the beginning, not millions of years after the beginning.

There are three options.

1. Was Jesus lying? (God cannot lie, so if this is true, then it means that Jesus is not God)
2. Did Jesus not understand modern science? (God knows everything, so if this is true, then Jesus is not God)
3. Was Jesus right? (If this is true, the Creationism is not a Protestant teaching but taught by Our Lord and Saviour Himself)