Can priests wear white collars?

[Maria]

Have you ever been mistaken for a Muslim?

We have a lot of Muslims where I live, and I do dress modestly. This is why I am thinking of getting or making a wooden cross to wear around my neck.

I have muslims all around my neighborhood, but nobody has mistaken me for a muslim even though I dress modestly. I was mistaken for jewish by a very ignorant woman neighbor because she saw my priest when he came to bless my apartment many years ago. But, the majority can see if someone is muslim. Besides, even if you cover your head, it would have to be tucked a certain way to be considered muslim dressing. A wrap around can only be mistaken as muslim by the ignorant.

So, if you cover your head (which I think is absolutely fine and wonderful), don't tuck behind your ears. I'm sure people won't think it's muslim. If you have so many in your area, then the people will be able to recognize the difference.

As for the wooden Cross. We're not suppose to show it anyway. It should be tucked under our blouse. Unless you are monastic. I have a gold Cross. I don't know where you live, but if you are in fear that someone will steal the Cross off your neck, then I suggest you move to somewhere more safe.

I will never accept the Roman collar. It's just so...papist.

The thieves here will cut off the fingers of victims just to steal the gold wedding bans.
They will steal the copper line running to your home. They have stolen church bells and domes.
It is getting bad. Really bad. Electrical rates are increasing due to thievery.

I do not wear a cross in public unless I am inside the church on Sunday.

I do not understand what you mean by tucking the scarf behind your ears.
Here in the Southland, Muslim women wear full scarves and they look like nuns.
I usually wear scarves draped around my head and neck outside on cold days.

I have those handkerchief (triangle) scarves that I wear tied in the back but covering my ears when I am outside gardening, or I wear a Boonie hat with a mosquito net over that. We have those Africanized honey bees and sweat bees, and I have bad reactions to sweat and mason bees stings. Last year, an exterminator had to come and remove a hive of Killer bees. These bees are still around as the forest is only one block away where they are entrenched, so these bees dive bomb us occasionally as a warning. If we leave the area, they leave us alone, but if we have brush to clear, it can become dangerous very quickly.

So, our stupid neighbors who do not realize the threat of Killer bees, give us crazy stares, and wonder if I am a Muslim. We have been told by the fire department not to wear floral patterns or bright red, orange, and yellow clothing. Thus we wear plain clothes usually in camo colors such as tan or army green.

[Matthew]

Wow, Maria, sounds like a very difficult place to live. I hope that you are able to find a more hospitable place. But if I had to choose between nature and thieves, I think I would choose natural dangers over demonic ones. Hopefully you can find a peaceful place where there is little of either.

Hi Joanna, yes, am aware of the work against the Church by certain among the Jews (though not all of them were scheming against the Church. Some of them were actually quite friendly and dialogued honestly with the Christian apologists, much in the professional and interested manner of scholars today who enjoy discussing historical or other academic problems or questions. But yes, there was some nasty business fomented by Jewish people and moved the Romans to violence and persecution. I would say about the martyrdom by mistaken notions, that if I was killed because someone thought i was a muslim, and was mistaken because I was obeying the Church's standards and manner of dress, then before God I would be seen as one who died a martyr's death for Christ and the Orthodox Faith. The world would consider it an unfortunate act of violence and mistaken identity only. But not before God. On the other hand, of course we all would prefer to die clearly in the eyes of all for the Orthodox Purity of Faith. We would like the reason for which we are dying to be entirely clear that the glory be maximal and all to the glory of God that God be glorified, the faith brought to new souls as well. My point was only that we should not make accommodations to the world in small or big compromises on the traditions of the Orthodox Faith out of fear that we "might be mistaken" for muslims or anything else for that matter. By the way, in the final analysis, I don't think anyone really makes that mistake all that often, and even if they did, they are set straight easily within a minute or two, by simply showing them your cross under your shirt, or even just a simply statement that, "No I am not a muslim but Eastern Orthodox or Russian Orthodox Christian. We just have an older traditions than the muslims of head coverings, which is outlined in the New Testament by the Apostle Paul." Once those words came out of your mouth, they could NOT possibly mistaken you for a muslim because NO Muslim would ever say they were a Christian, or quote the New Testament Apostle Saint Paul. And if you were in a safe place you could even show them your cross and that would settle it too, since no Muslim wears a cross in her shirt.

Symeon

[jgress]

Normally monks and nuns do not wear pectoral crosses, unless they are hieromonks, abbots or abbesses (correct me if I'm wrong). But Met Pavlos has instructed our our lay monastics, male and female, to wear pectoral crosses (usually small ones) so that they will be identified as Christians, not Muslims. Otherwise, they still wear traditional monastic clothes.

Perhaps the New Calendarists are having their clergy don the Roman Catholic collar and street wear to avoid causing confusion with the Muslim and Jewish clerics. I highly doubt that this is the only reason. Roman Catholic clergy street wear is cheaper than buying cassocks and riassas, but more importantly, wearing the Roman Catholic collar confuses the ecclesiology and shows that their real intent is to unite with the Roman Catholic Church.

Incidentally, a New Calendar Greek Orthodox Priest told me that he had often been mistaken for a Jewish Rabbi, Cantor, or Muslim Imam whenever he traveled wearing his riassa, especially whenever he was going to the airport to greet his Metropolitan. Although he wore a small cross, people still did not notice it and would approach him. Once when he told a Jewish man that he was not Jewish but Greek Orthodox, the man responded, "Then you still worship Zeus?"

In some jurisdictions, wearing the Roman collar, shaving etc has been common among Orthodox in America for at least half a century, if not more. There are pictures of Met Petros of Astoria, when he was in the Metropolia (now OCA) back in the 1950s: there he is, with traditional clerical garb and full beard, among clean-shaven priests wearing dog collars.

The pretext itself doesn't seem objectionable: the clergy here didn't want to scandalize or confuse the non-Orthodox majority. Remember how Fr Alexis Toth was treated for trying to maintain Greek Catholic traditions under an unsympathetic Latin hierarchy. And it's always the case that some concessions must be made. But in hindsight it's clear that these Westernizing clergy conceded too much, since the secular culture continues to eat away at tradition among those jurisdictions (though this can affect even the True Orthodox).

The ignorance of the public is still considerable, however. For most Americans, "Orthodox" is a kind of Judaism, wearing full beards is either Judaic or Islamic, wearing all black is Judaic, covering your hair, if you're a woman, is Islamic. It's not surprising that people will fail to notice your cross and simply look at your headcovering or dress or beard.

[Matthew]

The ignorance of the public is still considerable, however. For most Americans, "Orthodox" is a kind of Judaism, wearing full beards is either Judaic or Islamic, wearing all black is Judaic, covering your hair, if you're a woman, is Islamic. It's not surprising that people will fail to notice your cross and simply look at your headcovering or dress or beard.

I found your comments helpful, Jonathan. Thank you. It is common for people not to notice the cross, for some strange reason, even when it is prominently displayed along with the veil or clerical robes; but as I said, simply verbally drawing their attention to the cross and making very clear to them that you are NOT Muslim or Jewish, but Orthodox Christian, this will educate people one at a time and over time the public will become more aware of the Orthodox presence.

Symeon

[Matthew]

Just a note: I have posted some articles relating to the value and importance of Orthodox dress under the Praxis Section of the Forum. The subject is: "On Beards, Men's & Women's Clothing, & Head Coverings". I hope you find the articles enjoyable and beneficial.

Symeon

[joasia]

Maria,

I hope God leads you to a safer place to live.

As for the tucking...it's the overlap method of the scarf.

Symeon,

and even if they did, they are set straight easily within a minute or two, by simply showing them your cross under your shirt,

That's what I did. The woman was complaining to our landlord and said something about me being a jew. It didn't take a minute though. Two seconds, I pull out my Cross from under my shirt and showed her. I said: I'm Christian!

I didn't bother with the Orthodox part because she wouldn't know what that meant anyway. She was totally ignorant.

[jgress]

Maria,

I hope God leads you to a safer place to live.

As for the tucking...it's the overlap method of the scarf.

Symeon,

and even if they did, they are set straight easily within a minute or two, by simply showing them your cross under your shirt,

That's what I did. The woman was complaining to our landlord and said something about me being a jew. It didn't take a minute though. Two seconds, I pull out my Cross from under my shirt and showed her. I said: I'm Christian!

I didn't bother with the Orthodox part because she wouldn't know what that meant anyway. She was totally ignorant.

I'm astounded. Why would she object to you being Jewish? Was she Muslim? I thought that kind of anti-Semitism was extinct among modern Westerners. At least in Europe, you only really see that kind of prejudice among the Muslim immigrants.